Rorate Caeli

“We must love the Church more than ever”: Interview with Dr. Alice von Hildebrand (Rorate Exclusive)

Rorate is grateful to Annemarie and Thomas Thimons for providing this transcript of an interview they conducted with Dr. Alice von Hildebrand on September 3, 2018, shortly after the Viganò revelations about former Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, about whom the long-delayed and long-awaited Vatican dossier is supposed to appear imminently — though it remains to be seen whether it will, in fact, expose the many actual and suspected connections, which ought to bring down many powerful members of the hierarchy. This interview with Dr. von Hildebrand has not been published until now.

The interviewers begin by sharing that McCarrick had been stripped of his red hat by Pope Francis a month prior to our meeting and required to live a life of penance.

Alice von Hildebrand [AVH]. That was a good decision.


But it gets a bit more complicated. You’ve heard of the Pennsylvania Grand Jury report?


No, I am going deaf and unless someone gives me the information, I have no way of knowing.


We will give you the information then. The state attorney general for the state of Pennsylvania stated that, over a 40-year period or more, there was an account of over 301 Roman catholic priests who abused over a thousand children. Most of them…around 80% of these cases were boys were beyond the age of puberty. And young men in the seminaries. Then, last week, Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò the former papal nuncio to the US issued an 11-page document stating that when he was apostolic nuncio to the US, Pope Benedict became aware of Cardinal McCarrick’s misdeeds...


He was aware!


He put private sanctions on Cardinal McCarrick, basically he was told he was not to present himself for public ministry and he was to live a life of prayer, especially away from seminarians. Cardinal McCarrick disobeyed these sanctions, and when Pope Francis was elected, he asked Archbishop Viganò about Cardinal McCarrick and he (the Pope) lifted the sanctions against McCarrick. He let him run free. He ended up becoming a key player with Vatican negotiations with China and Vatican relations with Cuba. Then a month and a half ago, the charges came out. That indeed, before the council, a gay mafia homosexuals had begun to infiltrate the Church not only at the Vatican but worldwide.


So our question, Dr. von Hildebrand, is your husband’s concerns during Vatican II when he had approached Pope Paul VI. Do you see any correlations between what Dietrich suspected—what he was so upset about, that they had “desecrated Holy Mother Church.” Do you see a correlation?


You are asking about my husband and Paul VI?


Yes. Do you see any connection between what is happening now and what happened then? Archbishop Viganò is saying that Pope Francis was aware of all of this that is going on, they are calling for Pope Francis to resign because he allowed Cardinal McCarrick to continue…


You know, I know nothing about this because... I was in the hospital with a broken hip, and truly you are the ones to inform me about this. But I can only say this: my husband was farsighted. And after Vatican II he was extremely concerned about what was happening. And this is why we asked for an interview with Paul VI and we got one, and Dietrich told him what he thought. But I mean, there is absolutely no doubt that Paul VI did not think very highly of my husband.


They’re going to canonize Paul VI next month.

(AVH shakes her head.)


That’s what we’re doing research on. This cannot happen—it shouldn’t happen for the good of the church.




Do you have any further comment on that?


I can only say what my husband said after Vatican II: “The devil has invaded the Church!”


Did your husband see any connection with Freemasonry in the Church?


Yes! He was absolutely convinced that Freemasons had invaded the Church up to the very top. That’s what he said to me. I can only say that the last months of my husband’s life were very sad because he was conscious that the Church was in a state of danger as never before. He was convinced.


And we’re seeing the results of that now… what Dietrich had forseen.


(AVH nods in agreement.)


Did your husband think that Paul VI was enabling or directly involved with the gay mafia that had influence over the Vatican?


Do you mean Vatican II? Well, he was absolutely convinced that they had tried to do so—and then he said to me on his deathbed: “The gates of Hell shall not prevail!” But he was terribly, terribly concerned about the state of the Church.


Did he have any suspicions about Paul VI?


Yes! Suppose that we say… he was very reserved towards Paul VI.


He was respectful but he had suspicions.


Well, I mean, respectful if you read what he says—“the papacy is a gift”—but he did not mean individual popes. The last month of his life you can imagine how often he sobbed and he said “The Church has been invaded.” He was convinced.


By multiple groups?


Yes. Mostly Freemasonry.


That’s my suspicion with Cardinal Angelo Sodano. He was Cardinal Casaroli’s successor. He’s had a direct hand in the naming of certain cardinals like McCarrick. Are you familiar with the St. Galen Mafia?




(We explained it to some extent.)


I think he [Benedict] was forced to resign. For goodness’ sake, thank God he is alive and well. Look, one thing is for sure, I’m quoting St. John. At the end of time, there will be such confusion in the church, even the elect will be confused. And that is what we’re going through right now!


The great apostasy.


Absolutely the great apostasy! I beg God to take me before I have a chance to get confused.


In relation to Fatima: Do you believe the entirety of the Third Secret of Fatima was revealed by the Church?


No, I’m convinced we do not have the entirety of the secret. But I mean, that is my own personal judgement. Because had it been revealed fully, people would have been so upset at what was revealed. The question is, could it do them more harm than to keep it secret? I’m quoting my husband: We are living in apocalyptic times. It is so grave and so serious. I beg God to take me before I have a chance of being seduced.


Do you think the current crisis we are facing is connected to the Third Secret?


Yes I think so. But that’s my personal opinion.


I was wondering about this document that Dietrich wrote down after the council, when you approached Paul VI and he told you ‘ Lo Scriva! Lo Scriva!” Do you still have that document? Would you consider publishing that document? Do you think it would help us understand why the papacy is in this situation?


Yes. It hasn’t been published. Who has it? Do you know who has the document?


No, we don’t. Dietrich wrote the letter in Florence to Paul VI expressing his concerns. Do you think that letter would help the world understand things better right now?


Yes, I think it would.


Would you consider publishing that letter? Since the papacy is in such a position right now. They are calling for the pope to resign. He has remained silent on the issue; he refuses to speak.


Yes, yes, yes. The question is where is this document…. You know, one thing is certain. This situation is apocalyptic. My husband always said we are living in apocalyptic times and we have to pray and pray constantly that God does not allow me to lose my faith or get confused.


As you are aware, there is a view among many Catholics—they bury their heads in the sands and kind of look the other way at what Bishops are doing, and what the Church is doing---


You know, personally I have a great admiration for Cardinal Burke. And I was told his situation is so dramatic and so difficult…


Yes, he’s carrying a very heavy cross right now for the Church.


I think very highly of him, I think he’s being persecuted right now. What can an old lady do who is this close to death? Pray.


I’m sorry if we are bothering you with so many questions…


Alice and Dietrich von Hildebrand

No, you are most welcome—it is so important in times like these that we do not feel isolated and that we collaborate with one another.


I was wondering that if Paul VI is canonized next month, I feel like that would be the crowning jewel of masonic infiltration into the Catholic church.


I simply say: We are living in apocalyptic times in which even the elect are seduced and I simply say take me soon before I have a chance to get confused. And at my age, it is legitimate to hope for that. But I turn to Cardinal Burke, he’s the one that I trust. Let’s face it. The situation in the world and in the Church is dramatic. John chapter 21! I personally would be very happy if the pope resigned, but I don’t think he will.


What is your reaction to his silence? He has told the laity he will not respond to the accusations and he chooses to remain silent. Is that an appropriate reaction?


You know, I don’t dare pass final judgements. I keep repeating “The gates of shall NOT prevail!” This is what you have to keep repeating. Obviously, let’s face it: the situation is grave.

How would you advise us to determine the true shepherds from the wolves?


Prayer. Pray. Look at what they say and what they do. I mean, as I said, the best way to harm the Church is to infiltrate it. You know some of us are called upon to speak or to write. Most of us are called upon to pray.


Would you say Paul VI was the one who opened wide the door to Freemasonry in the church?


Possibly. I won’t pass final judgement. But possibly. I can only say this: my husband was concerned about his papacy, very concerned. But let us not pass judgment. Let’s make it clear and simple: We are living in apocalyptic times. And our duty is pray, pray, pray, make sacrifices. And those of us who have a mission to speak should speak clearly and courageously even though that person can be destroyed. And most of us are called upon to pray. And what is also important is all those that are traditionalists should join together. They should not be isolated; they should join together. God will not abandon us, but we are living in apocalyptic times—this is a reality we must face. “God, do not allow us to betray you! Do not allow us to listen to evil voices that keep coming!”


It’s a fine line…


Yes, it is. But I don’t think we should be surprised because this has all been announced. Because some people might say, “I’m going to leave the Church because of this.” No. We must love the Church more than ever.


And the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ is enduring her passion right now.


Yes. We should not be surprised because this all was announced, there would be such confusion as would seduce even the elect.


Do you know Don Luigi Villa? From Italy?


Don Villa? Yes, yes! I met him years ago. Is he still alive?


No he passed away.


I knew him very, very well. In fact, every time I went to Italy, I made a point of visiting him.... The thing we have to do more than ever is say “I believe the forces of evil will not prevail, I believe it!” Even though at times it seems the ship is sinking.


In the end, her Immaculate Heart will triumph.


Yes, that’s it. But this situation is very, very grave. I mean this is what my husband was saying in the last months of his life—he sobbed more times than the whole time I knew him. Because he said to me—and he was right over there in that living room: “The forces of Hell have pervaded the Church. They are in the Church.” You see, if you attack the Church from the outside and it becomes stronger and stronger, but if you infiltrate it… This is a fact that cannot be denied. But it’s no reason for us to lose faith because the Holy Virgin will triumph again. More and more prayers, more and more acts of faith!