LEO IN HIS OWN WORDS: THE KEY POINTS OF THE INTERVIEW - Part V in the Series "The First Year of Leo XIV"

This fifth part of our ongoing series dedicated to the First Year of Leo XIV, written by Rorate contributor Serre Verweij, is a little different from the previous ones. It is dedicated to a point by point analysis of Pope Leo XIV's interview to Crux, published as the second part of the book "Leo XIV: Citizen of the World, Missionary of the 21st Century".

Series: The First Year of Leo XIV

V  - LEO IN HIS OWN WORDS

Excerpts from the first real substantial interview of Pope Leo have been published. He gave the honour to Crux Now. The fact that he chose to give the interview to a traditionally centrist (though arguably centre-left) site that had become more centre-right in the last few years, might itself be quite indicative.

Pope Leo spoke a lot on various controversial topics. He was both guarded and diplomatic in his language, without being needlessly ambiguous. Watching the interview rather than the actual text is worth recommending. Now that the dust has somewhat settled, here follows an interpretative summary of what we can expect from Pope Leo, based on the positions he took in the interview. 

Curia reform: 

• -The core ideas of Francis’ curial reforms seem good, but in practice, quite a bit might have to be changed.
• -No mention of female or lay prefects (either as good or bad).
• -No hostility towards the Curia as often displayed by Francis. 
• -More communication between various dicasteries rather than them working in isolation is promoted.

Women in the Church:

• -The Pope is not officially declaring ordained female deacons impossible (yet), but indicates he has no plans form them and suggests female deacons generally could add a bad form of clericalism.
• -He is skeptical of what came of the permanent diaconate after Vatican II and therefore sees even less basis for female deacons (this logically undermines ‘viri probati’ too).
• -He wants to appoint women to leadership positions in the various Church levels, but again no mention is made of governmental positions in the Curia, traditionally specifically linked to Holy Orders.

Episcopal conferences:

• -The Pope references the debate about giving greater doctrinal authority to bishops’ conferences during the synod and pushback by both English speaking and African prelates. 
• -He furthermore references confusion and mistranslation during the synod and how he spoke of that at the time as cardinal prefect (when he downplayed more extensive authority being given to episcopal conferences as hoped for by progressives).
• -He specifically acknowledges concerns at the notion that local conferences could implement their own approach, regarding homosexual relationships, polygamy and also divorce and remarriage, that do not seem in harmony with Church doctrine.
• -He acknowledges that according to Vatican II the individual bishop is the successor of the apostles. 
• -He does state that it seems logical for regional bishops to come together and ensure a united approach to local bishops rather than contradictory approaches, describing this as support for the bishops’ ministry. 

China:

• -The Pope is planning to stick to Francis’ policies in the short term, but not ruling out changes in the long run. 
• -He acknowledges the pragmatic diplomatic approaches and takes it into consideration, but already has other perspectives in mind and believes in listening to other people, too. 
• -He specifically acknowledged the underground Church. 

Synodality and democracy

• -Pope Leo openly acknowledged the imperfections of secular political democracy, making him perhaps the least pro-democratic Pope since Pope Pius XI. 
• -Synodality will (no longer) be used to promote democracy within the Church, specifically on doctrinal issues. 
• -He will not necessarily preserve (all) synodal structures set up by Francis. 
• -He does support the spirit of synodality which is mainly about involving all Catholics in the life of the Church and evangelization. 
• -Synodality is not meant to undermine episcopal authority, bishops who think it is might be misunderstanding their authority (according to Australian Catholic commentator and author Scott Smith likely a reference to very princely and power hungry bishops in certain parts of the third world).
• -The focus however is not on the institutional hierarchy, but the Church as a whole, everyone with their gifts, carrying out their mission.

Liturgy and the Traditional Mass

• -One of the few concrete issues where Pope Leo does think synodal listening can impact decision making is ironically the Tridentine mass. 
• -He speaks of the liturgy of being used politically in the context of polarization, but does not specifically accuse "Trads" of this. 
• -He considers claims that the new mass was celebrated improperly and resulted in a lack of divine mystery. He questions whether the new mass is celebrated properly, there really is such a big difference. 
• -He indicated uncertainty and did not reaffirm Traditionis Custodes or stand behind it. 
• -He acknowledged that there was a study group regarding inculturated liturgy (for example the Amazon rite mass) but did not take a stance on this.

Homosexuality 

• -Blessings of individuals are obviously possible and that is all that Fiducia Supplicans will mean from now on. 
• -Pope Leo specifically spoke out against the bishops who officially allow the blessing of gay couples (this criticizes the German and Belgian, something not even commentator Scott Smith or his sources expected).
• -Francis’ welcoming is interpreted to apply to all individuals as individuals, but not based on any alleged sexual or gender identity. 
• -Pope Leo thinks priests who hear confessions can deal respectfully with all kinds of people who make wrong choices or are in certain states of life (it seems highly suggested that homosexuals fall into this category).
• -Instead of criticizing Western conservatives as obsessed with opposing sexual sin, Pope Leo references an Asian cardinal to critics an obsession with identifying with sexuality amongst Western liberals. 
• -Pope Leo thinks the Church doctrine of both marriage and sexuality will remain. Highly doubts it will change in the near future (as long as he is alive?).
• -Pope Leo will speak out in favour of traditional marriage and the traditional family in the future, the family is father, mother and children to him. He might avoid polarization by personally condemning sexual sin and leave this more to local bishops. 
• -The criminalization of homosexual acts in various African countries was not condemned by Pope Leo the way it was by Francis.

Sexual abuse by priests:

• -The Pope acknowledged how deep the wounds due to sexual abuse can be and that these do not vanish due to financial settlement or the priest being expelled. 
• -He also mentioned how abuse involved various authorities including women and catechists, not just priests. 
• -He emphasized that thankfully most priests are not abusers at all. 
• -He also stated that some priests are falsely accused and respecting the rights of accused priests is important, too. 
• -The Pope asserted that the law (both secular and Church law) is essential to ensure justice for both sides.

Ecumenism and inter-religious dialogue

• -He seems inclined to follow the ecumenic approach of John Paul II.
• -He has no unrealistic expectation about reunion with other denominations and acknowledges that there are still dividing issues.
• -He specifically acknowledges new problems regarding Russian orthodoxy due to the war in Ukraine
• -He gives no indication that he is willing to water down controversial Catholic dogma (like the Filioque?) or endorse intercommunion with protestants, nor that he is willing to sideline the Eastern Catholics. 
• -He supports dialogue with Jews and Muslims, but does not seem intent on denying the Church’s mission to evangelize. 

The Petrine office

• -Pope Leo clearly views the papacy as a supernatural institution one is called to. 
• -The Pope is not merely a ‘primus inter pares’ or the bishop of Rome, but the successor of Saint Peter meant to confirm his brethren in the faith (said to be a subtle reference to criticism of Francis doing so insufficiently by Cardinal Burke)
• -The new Pope is still learning how to conduct himself in his new role. 

The United States

• -Pope Leo will not because he is an American give special attention to President Trump. 
• -While positively referencing Francis’ letter to the American bishops in which he criticized President Trump and Vice President Vance on migration, Pope Leo invokes this to support an opposite approach and largely led the American bishops interact with Trump as they themselves see fit. 
• -He wants to support Trump when he takes the right stances including in his support of  ‘questions of human dignity, of promoting peace in the world’.
• -He has some worries about some things happening in the USA, but wishes to avoid partisan politics. He does not claim to fully understand previous tensions regarding the American episcopacy.
• -He acknowledged that Trump indicated he liked his ‘Trumpist’ eldest brother and that this was fine.

International politics and the role of the Holy See

• -Pope Leo does not think his task is solving problems in the world, but preaching the gospel (which can help with finding solutions).
• -He does not seem to think the Holy See can have a strong role as peacemaker for international conflicts.

Artificial Intelligence and economics 

• -Pope Leo is worried about growing extreme inequality, but does not seem to criticize economic inequality itself. 
• -He does not deem inequality the sole or main cause of social upheaval, also ascribing social problems to a loss of higher truths. 
• -The Church is not against technological advancements but will have to speak out to defend human dignity and human labour if these are threatened by the advances of AI.
• -Humans becoming paws while the digital world is given primacy is dangerous.
• -Encountering God in AI seems extremely difficult. He is encountered in human relationships.

In conclusion: Key positions

Overall some of the most noteworthy elements of Pope Leo’s interview are:

- Pope Leo referenced criticism of attempts to decentralize doctrine and to promote modernist views on sexuality by both African, Asian and English speaking cardinals and bishops. He clearly recognizes how broad and global the rejection of German progressive ideas are.

- His willingness to openly hint at break with the status quo established by Francis on a few key issues.

- That he specifically mentioned divergent (and possibly heretical) local practices regarding divorce and remarriage alongside homosexuality (this bodes well for critics of Amoris Laetitia).

- His open skepticism of democracy as the solution to everything (this together with his previous statements regarding politics based on natural law and Catholic politicians having to follow the faith seems to make him the least liberal-democratic Pope (in politics) since Pope Pius XII or even Pope Piuss XI).

- The fact that he called out European bishops who bless gay couples.

- And above all, the fact that unity in semi-diversity, seems to have shifted from the approach under Francis. Francis generally practiced a repressive tolerance that looked the other way when Belgian and German bishops introduced rituals to bless gay couples, but cracked down on the Tridentine mass being celebrated in the United States and elsewhere.

- Pope Leo however is willing to openly criticize the liberal European bishops while taking a far more friendly approach towards Tridentine mass supporters. He seems (in theory, and so far just potentially) more open to them than John Paul II was.