Rorate Caeli

Note: Bad news from Long Island

We waited to post this note, sent by a reader in Long Island, in the hope that the situation might have changed since July 4th. It has unfortunately remained the same.

On Sunday July 4th, 120 people gathered for the 1:30 pm Latin Mass at Our Lady of Lourdes in Massapequa Park were informed that the pastor, Msgr. James Lisante, had decided to "suspend" the Latin Mass and replace it with an English Mass in the same time slot effective immediately.

In his letter in the bulletin, Msgr. Lisante explained that he suspended the Mass in order to alleviate the schedule of the present celebrant of the Latin Mass, Fr. Anthony Heinlein, who usually says two Masses on a weekend. Fr. Heinlein had recently taken over the 1:30 pm Latin Mass, and the pastor was concerned that offering three Masses on a weekend was too much for Fr. Heinlein.

Some parishioners are puzzled by this explanation since there will still be a 1:30 Mass, and it isn't clear how replacing the Latin Mass with an English Mass will reduce Fr. Heinlein's schedule, especially since Fr. Heinlein has made it known that he is more than happy to continue celebrating the Latin Mass.

In his sermon at the closing Mass, Fr. Heinlein described its cancellation as a "tragedy"; longtime OLL parishioners agree, but are quick to point out that this unfortunate decision by the pastor is the latest in a series of controversial actions by Msgr. Lisante since his arrival in 2008.

Some of the more egregious actions of the new pastor include:
  • the elimination of a popular traditiional Mass attended by many homeschooling families in the parish,
  • the removal of a beloved statue of Our Lady of Fatima from the sanctuary steps where it had been enshrined for twenty-five years
  • the removal of the crucifix from the altar
  • the removal of a "modesty" sign from its long accustomed place in the vestibule
  • the hiring of a gay-friendly music director who was known for directing a blasphemous pro-gay off-Broadway musical entitled, "My Big Gay Italian Wedding."
  • the elimination of half the confessions and Masses from the weekly schedule
  • the elimation of a decades-old monthly pro-life all-night prayer vigil
  • the elimination of a decades-old, immensely popular, monthly Fatima Holy Hour in honor of the saints
  • the banning of daily confessions in the chapel
  • the closing of the parish school, even though the former pastor had left a $2.8 million parish surplus and had set up a foundation specifically to aid the school to which the former pastor had donated $150,000.
All things considered, the elimination of this weekly EF Latin Mass at OLL parish, formerly known as a bastion of traditional orthodoxy and Marian devotion, is no surprise to anyone, though it is profoundly disappointing to the many regular attendees of this Mass. Many remember when the former pastor, Fr. Mason, instituted this Mass three years ago on the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross, after more than 400 signatures were gathered from parishioners requesting an EF Latin Mass in the parish.

To most traditional-minded observers here the sudden cancellation of the OLL EF Latin Mass appears to be the culmination of two-year campaign by the new pastoral administration to eradicate nearly all vestiges of traditional Catholicism from the last conservative parish in the Diocese of Rockville Centre.

(It should be noted that Bishop William Murphy, the Bishop of the Rockville Centre Diocese, has not only approved this decision, but has also consistently refused all requests to allow a personal parish for the traditional Catholics in this Long Island diocese of 1.4 million Catholics.)

58 comments:

TH2 said...

Msgr. Lisante - the priest who loves to wine and dine and hang out with celebrities - no surprise here.

Anonymous said...

The smartest thing any Long Island Catholic could do would be to take up a collection and hire a private investigator. I'm willing to bet that allot more would be found in that diocese besides this particular pastor's hostility toward tradition.

Seriously, think about it. It would be money well spent.

It's a very large diocese and lots of interesting stuff goes on there.

DaveB

Anonymous said...

And so the battle continues . . .

I guess this is a good reminder that Summorum Pontificum was a sort of declaration of war -- not a peace treaty.

Anonymous said...

Saint Michael the Archangel Church
900 Horseblock Road
Farmingville, NY 11738

Sunday Masses: 7:00AM & 9:00AM
Saturday Masses: 8:00AM

First Friday: 7:30PM followed by
All Night Adoration

First Saturday: 8:00AM ROSARY followed by Benediction and Mass.

After Mass, there is a schola practice.

In August, there will be a PARISH MISSION conducted by a Redemptorist Priest with ample opportunity to make regular confessions, or general confessions, sermons, conferences and of course Mass. This will be a three day mission.

All are invited to the Parish Mission, especially non-Catholics, and fallen away Catholics. A blessed opportunity to get back on track for those who have been away from the Church for some time.

In addition, the Pastor delivers great Sunday sermons. St. Michael's has founded a school "Our Lady of Good Success Academy which will open its doors for the second year come September, 2010.

Please visit in the near future and you will receive a warm welcome.

AF said...

Very sad. What if we looked at this from the viewpoint of "social responsibility." How are the pastor's actions viewed in light of this topic? This decision effectively denies the faithful of Rockville Centre access to a part of the Latin Rite that had already been open to them.

A campaign of nicely worded letters to the Rockville Bishop reminding him of his responsibility to the faithful might help.

Anonymous said...

If this was done to Muslims they would burn the house of those responsible as they did in Denmark.

I am not advocating that but just saying it is time to take firm action.

I will fast and pray that God comes against their Bishop and Msg.

Anonymous said...

Where is Peter?

ECMonet said...

The "last conservative parish in the Diocese of Rockville Centre"?

Step off your high horse.

Attendance growth of the the EF Liturgy is continuing at St. Matthew's Parish in Dix Hills and at St. Ladislaus' in Hepstead.

DRVC seminarians are taking Latin again and several of them are weekly servers at the TLM at the aforementioned parishes. They are also all in their 20's, which means a promising potential longevity of the TLM in the future of the diocese.

It should be noted that Bishop Murphy has administered the Sacrament of Confirmation in the Extraordinary Form twice now, since the Motu Proprio was promulgated, so I think it's safe to assume that his stance on the TLM is not quite as negative as it appears. It looks more like his position on the autonomy of pastors is what is at place here.

This is unfortunate, but let's not call it quits yet. There are more important battles to fight.

Anonymous said...

I've seen this Msgr. Lisante several times on FoxNews....milquetoast is never pleasing.

Anonymous said...

Anybody can write to His Grace Timothy Dolan or Apostalic Nuncio Pietro Sambi or Prefect of the Congregation for the faith (who is also prefect of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei) or the Prefect of the Congregation of the Discipline of the Sacrametns. Writing letters to these people have a 50-50 chance of being read and having something done about the problem. Even more so if they recieve a petition of hundreds or thousands of people complaining about the same problem. They can't ignore that. Also, to His Grace Timothy Dolan: 1983 CIC 436 & 1917 Canon 274 states that: In his suffragan dioceses, a Metropolitan (Dolan) has the duty of being vigilant that faith and ecclesiastical discipline are accurately observed and inform the Roman Pontiff about abuses.

Steve K. said...

"The smartest thing any Long Island Catholic could do would be to take up a collection and hire a private investigator. I'm willing to bet that allot more would be found in that diocese besides this particular pastor's hostility toward tradition."

This is an excellent suggestion and parishoners should consider this seriously.

Anonymous said...

Actually, attendance at both remaining TLM's on Long Island are dwindling... (I am an eye witness to this) for a variety of reasons. One of the reasons is the steady diet of low Masses on Long Island. Modernists have learned 2 things on Long Island:

1.) You can perform a confirmation in the old rite every other year and keep Rome happy and... keep everyone 'in the cage'.

2.) The fastest way to kill interest in the TLM is a steady diet of the low Mass.

You can coerce parents to come for a while... (by engaging their children) but many parents have complained to me... "the summer low mass mentality eventually wears pretty thin". In the words of five parents I have spoken to thus far in the last 2 years, "I come when we have to". Those comments were totally unsolicited... but there it is. Someties the truth is painful.

This is not so much a matter of the diocese disliking the TLM as it is a matter of the diocese disliking traditional theology and not understanding the difference between a sung High Mass and a low Mass. Or rather, perhaps some in the diocese understand the difference all too well.

What Long Island really needs is a traditionalist parish.

Without judging the bishops intentions here... I would say that he gives with his left hand and then takes away with his right.

A great example of this is when a pastor attempted to suspend communion in the hand in a neighboring parish (Lindenhurst) because he kept finding consecrated hosts on the floor and elsewhere. He warned his flock for months and months in sermon and in the bulleten. Then, finally... he suspended communion in the hand.

That lasted for a day, until one of the bishop's 'liturgy nuns' called the priest and quickly REVOKED HIS PASTORAL AUTHORITY!

Please ECMonet! You are living in a dream world if you consider Saint Matthews a 'traditional parish', or if you consider this bishop as sympathetic to tradition. His words are one thing, but his actions are quite another in so many, many respects (notjust in this isolated issue.)

DaveB

Carlos said...

I wanted to let you know this wonderful news.

To whom it may concern,

On july 7th, the Chilean Chamber of Deputies issued the following statement. It was approved by an outstanding 83%.

"The Chamber of Deputies of Chile agrees: to express its solidarity to all the organizations that fight against abortion, in particular to the spanish NGO Derecho a Vivir, that sees with horror how in Spain the most reprochable murder towards an indefense being has been perfected, how is that one commited on abortin, whose victims, since they are legally abandoned, will not be able to go to international tribunals of justice to demand the most basic of human rights, which is the right to life"

They also state that the Chilean constitution protects life in the mothers womb in its article 19.1 "The Constitution protects the life of he who is going to be born".

Chile is one of the few countries where abortion is penalized without exception. There was therapeutical abortion before, but during the government of President Pinochet it was abolished. Also, it is worthy to note that is one of most developed countries in Latin America.

Sorry for the poor english in the translation. The original in spanish can be found here:
http://www.camara.cl/trabajamos/pacuerdos.aspx?prmBuscar=Solidaridad%20con%20organizaciones%20mundiales%20que%20luchan%20contra%20el%20aborto

If it is published, please don not post my name on it.

may God bless you and our Chilean Nation,

Carlos

Paul Haley said...

But, but, but, Fr Lisante has faculties and is loyal to his bishop. We all know there is an injustice taking place in the Church today with regard to faculties and this is just one more example. As long as the Modernists are in charge, this sort of thing will continue. One more disgusting revelation from the "new springtime."

Anonymous said...

"Actually, attendance at both remaining TLM's on Long Island are dwindling..."

Actually, other than OLL there are, at present, at least 4 other churches offering the TLM every Sunday.
St Ladislaus in Hempstead
St Matthews in Dix Hills
St Michael in Farmingville
Sacred Heart in Cutchogue.

The Diocesan Tribunal Vicar Monsignor Pereda [very, very holy priest] offers a Missa Cantata twice per month at St Ladislaus.

Sacred Heart in Cutchogue offers a Missa Cantata 5 times per year.

St Michaels in Farmingville offers the Missa Cantata every Sunday.

I do not know how often St Matthews offers the Missa Cantata but they do have a very good schola and director.

Numbers at these Masses are not dwindling, but they are remaining static with the exception of St Michaels which on average has over 150 souls for every Sunday Mass and is growing.

Cruise the Groove.

Anonymous said...

This website will explain everything and might even shock, but ultimately it will wake you from the hypnosis we are all in and open your eyes....
http://www.traditioninaction.org

Anonymous said...

Abp. Dolan might not have the spine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQEmO07DpaI

Anonymous said...

Lord, please take away all those devil's agents in shepherd's clothing. We have had enough!

Anonymous said...

Here is another great example of the REAL Crisis in the Church.

Google maps says there is 28.8 miles between the FSSPX chapel and this now suppressed TLM at Our Lady of Lourdes.

28.8 miles. What is that a 30 minute drive?

JACC said...

EC Monet,

With all due respect, Our Lady of Lourdes was far and away the most conservative parish on Long Island for decades.

Fr. Mason, the former pastor, ran a very tight ship liturgically and doctrinally.

Unlike every other parish on the Island, under Fr. Mason altar girls were not allowed; he used one eucharistic minister per Mass;
he required the other priests to distribute Communion at the Sunday Masses; he never allowed guitars or folk music at any Mass, and a heterodox sermon was completely unheard of.


Fr. Mason heard confessions daily and for a minimum of 4 hours every Saturday. Every First Friday there was nocturnal adoration and a First Saturday Mass and procession in honor of Our Lady.

I could go on and on listing all the devotions and Marian feast day celebrations, but I think you get the gist.

Above all, Fr. Mason was well-known for his unvarnished orthodoxy. His sermons were tough, lengthy expositions on Catholic dogma, morals and spirituality.

He regularly spoke on those hot-button subjects no other priest in the diocese, no matter how "conservative" would dare touch: sin, abortion, homosexuality, contraception, and pornography.

The other parishes mentioned may have one Latin Mass/week and a few other traditional features, but no other parish in the diocese had the total package of conservative doctrinal and liturgical praxis that OLL had.

It's all gone now, though. Alas.

Anonymous said...

From the website of the parish it looks like the Mass will back from Nov. 30:

http://ollmp.org/parishinfo.htm

Just a sad pause?

Anonymous said...

Lisante was a big shot under the modernists who preceded Murphy, Bishopa McGann and Bishop McHugh, apparently Murphy doesnt want to take him on. Petition Rome and let them know , push and push and never let up!

Henry said...

"Actually, attendance at both remaining TLM's on Long Island are dwindling... (I am an eye witness to this) for a variety of reasons. One of the reasons is the steady diet of low Masses on Long Island."

Knowing nothing but what I read here, I wonder about the lay leadership there. In my experience with parish situations, those who want a successful TLM must get the priest, altar boys and schola trained, and provide the needed resources, from vestments to candles on the altar, to make it work right. Don't rely on the pastor for anything. Nothing.

If lay supporters don't get it done, the result is a low Mass with dwindling Sunday attendance. A Sunday high Mass is needed to succeed nowadays and draw increasing attendance, with the Novus Ordo having set such a high bar of expectations. (Partly a joke, of course, but with a kernel of truth.)

If they had 400 people who wanted the TLM, why couldn't they make it happen? Were they standing around waiting for the priest, the pastor, the parish, the bishop to do it for them? Never happens that way. Let the attendance dwindle, and you're asking for it.

Perhaps someone on the ground there can correct this speculation from afar.

JACC said...

Anonymous,

The November 30 date you're referring to on the parish website dates back to Nov. 30, 2008, the first Sunday of Advent, when Msgr. Lisante changed the mass schedule at Our Lady of Lourdes.

He dropped several weekend masses and moved the Latin Mass to a permanent time slot of 1:30 pm Sunday afternoon.

(Such a convenient time!)

Before then, Fr. Mason had rotated the Latin Mass on Sunday mornings.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @19.52, I think that "Nov. 30" reference is at least a year or two old and reflects the changes in mass times the new pastor implemented when he took over. Seems like the information website has not been updated in awhile.

This just goes to show that there was an agenda here, and that those who tried to give the current pastor the benefit of the doubt were ultimately incorrect. Replacing the Latin Mass with an English mass belies any supposed concerns about scheduling or donations. All I can think is what a kick in the teeth all of this must have been to poor, holy, Fr. Mason, although he would be too humble to admit it. It is very saddening to see this happen to a parish. I unfortunately have witnessed such a thing before in my childhood parish, elsewhere.

This whole fiasco is disheartening. There were positive signs after SP. Multiple locations opened up, a conservative was appointed to run the diocesan seminary, the Bishop began offering confirmation in the extraordinary form (which was and is a great sign; in my former diocese, the former bishop would not do such a thing and instead permitted the parish priest to perform the confirmation in the traditional rite), the long standing 'indult' mass was placed into a regular parish, etc. Unfortunately these positive developments seem to be fleeting or sliding back... At first blush, this might seem contradictory on behalf of the Bishop, but I wonder if he is not unlike the current Pope, he seems to say the right things and want and try to do the right things, but perhaps he can't do it all overnight. That being said, I don't know why a traditional parish could not be established here.

Now is an easy time to feel discouraged or even defeated, as I find my own feelings betraying me; but I think we should instead focus on supporting the Masses we have, even in their inconvenient locations. We do have friends in high places in the diocese. I think we need to redouble our efforts and support for the extraordinary form here on long island.

Anonymous said...

The problem with even the "good holy conservative diocesan priests" from my experience is that they are cold, detached from all but a select few of the faithful, and very clericalist in their pastoral approach. Even the man in the pew who can not articulate this... senses it nonetheless. I'm talking about Rockville Centre now... and I'm speaking from my own experience.

I don't believe Bishop Murphy is a bad guy, but I do believe he severely underestimates the needs of orthodox families on Long Island. Yes! There actually ARE some orthodox families who want more that an occasional high mass and who (for a variety of good reasons) do not trust the chancery to give it to them (the communion on the floor thing in Lindenhurst is an excellent example of what I am talking about). These lay folks do not represent much in the way of the collection basket either because most of them would have conscience problems contributing to the CCHD, for example. So they may very well be off Bishop Murphy's emotional and pastoral radar screen for that reason. These folks want and NEED more than a detached pastor who may say a high mass once in a while.

I remember a response to a request from some 35 families which came from the bishop's desk (they were very politely asking to invite a traditional order into Long Island). His response was cold, annoyed at the polite request, anything but fatherly, and disengaged. I believe he has attempted to remedy this partly with the assignment of a new pastor to Saint Matthews. BUT... the new pastor does not seem very happy to be there... because he was quite comfortible in his old parish (his words really, not mine). That is the different between traditionalist order priests and diocesan priests. The diocesan priest has a much thicker "comfort zone". God help the layman in DRVC who crosses that zone in any way. That has been my families experience with these so called "good holy orthodox priests". Yet the families at Saint Matthews are good long suffering folks who desserve much more than an occasional High Mass. Ditto for the folks at the now defunct TLM at OLL.

Bottom line: The new pastor at the other parish (Saint Matthews) could either engage these people and challenge them to be saints (while becoming one himself), or... he could just get annoyed at their collective pain and decide to "mail it in". As far as I can see... right now, he is choosing the latter over the former. He has not even been formally installed and already he has announced to them that they are on "low mass summer mode". I know of at least one family who has left Saint Matthews and they are attending Sunday Mass outside of the diocese now. The father was part of their schola... I believe their boy served at the altar, the daughters occasionally sung in the schola as well. The father indicated to me last week, that he felt the new pastor simply did not want to be there. Perhaps it was the low Mass for all the TLM confirmandi which pushed that particular dad over the edge. So the man now drives for almost an hour to escape the diocese. That tells you something. This was a man who was squarely dedicated and "with the diocesan program". He seemed disillusioned with the new pastor and now quite detached from Rockville Centre.

As for the families that have worked to bring the TLM to both parishes... they are devoted and decent hard working people all of them (an I know them all pretty well). They have spend THOUSANDS of hours making things easy for the priests who have been kind enough to learn and say a Missa Cantata. But I believe that after 40 years of long suffering, DRVC may loose these good traditional familes and their children. And I'm not exactly sure that the diocese minds loosing them, for they are a gentle but annoying reminder of Sacred Tradition and a pastoral strategy which has all but dissappeared and has been replaced by wealth, comfort, clerical mediocracy.

DaveB

Anonymous said...

As a veteran of the post-Vatican II "new springtime", I assure you that this dear priest was sent in precisely to raze this bastion of orthodoxy.

Petition Rome? You must be joking. The Vatican must have enough file cabinets filled with petitions and letters to fill at least two dozen rooms.

Delphina

Anonymous said...

yOU FOLKS HAVE GOT YOURSELF a real MODERNIST. HE may or may not have the real faith or in name only catholic, a child of vac ii. Avoid him like the plage...run do not walk from this church.I will keep you in my prayers.

Anonymous said...

Contact Rome.

Anonymous said...

Dear Bishop Murphy, Msgr. Pareda, some of the Anon's here, Delphina/ECMonet, the new pastor at Saint Matthews.

What those 35 families were saying years ago when they wrote Bishop Murphy (those who want a traditional order) is that they want to be Catholic in the orthodox sense or the word for more than just an hour a week.

They want priests who are not afraid to talk about purity from the pulpit. They want confessors who will hear their confessions any time it is humanly possible. They want and need a priest who will form men's retreats to deepen their faith. They want "Marian" priests who will visit their homes, go to an occasional picnic, a procession, demonstrate outward affection for Our Lady.

They are not looking for a chance to attend Virtus and join a committee. They are looking for holiness. The TLM is part of it... (though the low Mass does not cut it for either young or old based upon those who have shared their feelings with me). I have to agree with the other poster here who characterized DRVC's BEST priests as "detached, cold, clericalist". The single exception to that was the previous pastor of Saint Matthews. I don't know the new pastor well enough to comment... but I know that I was personally very, very disappointed by his announcement of a 'low mass summer'. I AM the dad whose family has left Saint Matthews, the schola... the diocese that another commenter made reference to.

I believe only a traditional order here could quell the ache that many have. Pain and marginalization are the reasons so many have already left for SSPX. I will never leave for SSPX as long as they do not have faculties. But I am presently planning to leave a good job and a nice home (at significant financial loss) so that I can move into a diocese which is near a traditionalist order or two. Your Excellency, please point your browser to fssp.org and look at the images of priests with FAMILIES. This will help you to understand. Spend a long time looking

http://fssp.org/en/photos.htm

All of the families I know would not picket the Cathedral or hassle you (as I have). Those folks left the diocese more than 5 years ago after the abuse scandals hit the nation. We stayed! We toughed it out. We knew the scandals were about homosexuality and not pedophilia... but we stayed anyway! What we got for that fidelity was Msgr. Lisante, Fr. Blockley, and "My Big gay Italian Wedding" Peter Rappanaro! Why are we still here? Frankly some of the best families are now asking themselves that very question. I'm talking about the families who have "friends in high places".

Honestly, those 35 families love you, our bishop, we love the afore mentioned priests (even the new modernist pastor of OLL), but we want more than just a chance to be Catholic for an hour a week at some parish like Saint Matts that "tolorates us". The pictures of the FSSP parishes say it all your Excellency. I was the first to come up the altar during the confirmation you officiated as I sponsored the son of one of those 35 families a few weeks ago. I nearly wept. Why? Because Long Island looks so beautiful from the outside. But it is really a devastated vineyard. We are partly to blame for that (lax lay folks... I regret my mis-spent youth). But you could do much, much more to help strengthen the faith of those who want orthodoxy, have fought with you, have disagreed with you, but who have stayed with you because you are our bishop and because the God of Love & obedience demands that we love you.

With respect.

Bob F.

Anonymous said...

"I will never leave for SSPX as long as they do not have faculties."

A true Catholic response to the pain and marginalization. Fight the good fight.

Rob said...

With all due respect, Bishop Murphy, the last commenter is right in saying that we want to live and breathe the old Faith for more than one hour a week, cared for by priests trained in a traditional seminary.

If you believe in social justice as much as you say you do, you'd give us a priest trained in a traditional seminary to care for our souls.

We have a right to live and breathe the traditiional faith, assisted by priests trained in that faith and whose priestly ministry is completely devoted to the Usus Antiquior FULL TIME, and not just for one hour a week.


With all due respect, Excellency, the current praxis of throwing traditional minded Catholics into a regular parish devoted to the new rites 167 hours a week and expecting one Mass to take the place of traditional parish life is completely inadequate.

One hour of traditional Catholicism a week is neither fair to us or our children. Sadly, though we continue asking you for bread, you give us stones.

As Bob F said, one look at fssp.org is enough to know that there is a world of difference between a traditional parish staffed by priests trained to staff such a parish, as opposed to the one hour/week version of traditonal Catholicism you have consigned us to.

Best,

Rob

JulieC said...

I was at that Confirmation, too, and Bishop Murphy confirmed two of our children for which I'm very grateful.

I've had some serious differences with our bishop in the last nine years, and when he processed down the cathedral aisle in his beautiful vestments and mitre, it was an emotional moment for me.

As passionately as I disagree with Bishop Murphy on several key issues, I have always recognized and respected the power and authority of the episcopal office and treated him in all my communications with deference and courtesy.

In return, all I've ever wanted was for our bishop to show a little fatherly compassion and solicitude for the traditional families in his diocese and demonstrate some sympathy for our legitimate hopes and desires for a Latin rite parish in the diocese of Rockville Centre.

Instead we have only ever received cold bureaucratic responses (and often angry and hostile answers as well) to our appeals and no reply to the most urgent request of all two years ago.

I pray with all my heart that someday this painful, strained relationship between our bishop and ourselves may be healed and that he (or his successor) will extend a hand in friendship to us one day.

nazareth priest said...

As a Midwesterner who lived in the Northeast for several years, I can attest to the "weird" goings-on.
I'm sorry to hear about this.
As far as I'm concerned, most of the Northeast is under direct control of those who either hate Tradition or are embarrassed by it.
The "Kennedy" syndrome is alive and well (go along to get along no matter what you have to choke on to get what you want).
Prayers for these good people in this parish.
I hope Msgr. L. wakes up.
He is a real disappointment in many respects.

andyjourn said...

My dear Catholic friends at Our Lady of the Rosary in Long Island,

may I say how much I feel your sadness at Msgr Lisante's decision.

At the very least, he did tell you his mindset before the decision was actually made, in order to prepare you for this moment.

I promise I will write an email to him, expressing my solidarity with you all, in your desire to participate in the extraordinary form of the Roman Rite, which is a "rightful aspiration", outlined by Pope Benedict in Summorum Pontificum.

Perhaps now a written complaint to Bishop Murphy is in order, but if that has already been done, and you have received an nsatisfactory response, you can go to the ED commission.

If I can be of any help here, please get in touch with me, as I am acquainted with people inside there. andrew.rabel@gmail.com

Any suffering is meritorious, and by uniting your pain with Our Lord's Passion, great graces will flow from from this.

Andy (as some of you have affectionately called me!)

PS Remember that in spite of the anger you might feel now, the obligation to always show charity, even if you feel that virtue has not been practiced towards you. A good way to do this is to keep Msgr Lisante in your prayers, at this time, and to discourage gossip about him, perhaps mentioning the good things he does in fact do, in conversation.

Then, you are on the side of the angels.

Anonymous said...

Back to the indult locations. Lisante is also known for his desire for the spotlight. What he has done is not for the salvation of souls. He should be ashamed. I used to give there and will never again. I hope Priest Lisante is happy. I wonder if he would personally council each and every person who is being hurt by this decision. Will he listen to every story or run to Manhattan and Huntington for Dinners and Awards.

Anonymous said...

Anyone familiar with LI knows that you practically need a passport to go to Farmingville and Cutchogue. ANd drive past several hundred Churches on the way where you can not stop and pray. These are not convenient AT ALL..And hempstead, one of the worst areas on LI in terms of crimes.

Brian T. Austin said...

The Farmingville TLM is, of course, SSPX and NOT approved by the Diocese.

TLM is still offered at 9am at St. Matthew's in Dix Hills, and has a lovely choir, etc.

Ad majorem Dei gloriam,

Fr. Austin, FSSP

Anonymous said...

Actually dear Fr. Austin... the schola has been essentially shut down by the new pastor for the summer (except for the repetition of some hymns, perhaps).

He has indicated that they are no longer permitted to even sing the Introit, Offertory or Communio as simple (non versed) hymns, which is perfectly permissable to do.

He announced at the Pent5 Mass that it would be a 'low Mass summer'.

I spoke to a gentleman yesterday who is a regular there (on an unrelated matter). He said there is not much the schola can do there now due to the new rules. It is a silent, quick low Mass with virtually no participation. It is rapidly being transformed to a 'bare bones' TLM.

I believe the new pastor is on vacation for the summer now... so he is likely unreachable.

I'm afraid when he returns he is likely to find a smaller congregation.

What we need desparately here dear Fr. Austin, is for our bishop to invite your order in (as many other good spiritual fathers have done throughout the world).

In the mean time... I drive for approximately an hour in order to go to a sung high Mass for my own good and the good of my family.

Ave Maria!

Bob F.

PS: You are a fabulous schola teacher. I hope you can do it again on LI some day.

Anonymous said...

All of Long Island, New York City, and indeed, all of New York State is a wasteland for traditional Catholics. The neighboring (and less populous) state of NJ has 3 traditional personal parishes, NY has 0. It's a disgrace.

Anonymous said...

Important Update Regarding
Saint Michael the Archangel Church
900 Horseblock Road
Farmingville, Long Island, New York

WEEK END PARISH MISSION

Friday, August 27
5:30 pm Confessions
6:00 pm Rosary: followed by
Opening Ceremony of
Mission
6:30 pm Mass with Sermon 1
8:00 pm Explanation of Command-
ments 1-3; Sermon 2

Saturday, August 28
7:30 am General Confessions
8:30 am Explanation of Command-
ments 4-6 & 9
9:00 am Mass with Sermon 3
BREAKFAST
10:30am Explanation of Command-
ments 7-8 & Precepts of
the Church
Sermon 4; followed by
General Confessions
12:00 pm POTLUCK
1:00 pm Sermon 5 & Rosary &
General Confessions
2:00 pm Catechism for Children
2:30 pm Sermon 6; Devotions to
Our Mother of Perpetual
Help followed by General
Confessions
4:30 pm Instruction on Vocations
Sermon 7 followed by
General Confessions

SUNDAY, AUGUST 29
6:00 am General Confessions
7:00 am Mass with Sermon 8
9:00 am Mass with Sermon 8;
Benediction & Closing
Ceremony of Mission
Followed by General
Confessions

WHO IS THE MISSIONAY PRIEST?
He is a Redemptorist Father whose special apostolate is to preach Parish Missions. He comes as an "extraordinary confessor" that is, he will be unknown to you, so you can make your General Confession to him without feeling embarrassed.

WHO ARE THE REDEMPTORIST FATHERS?
The Redemptorists were founded in 1732 by St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori, Doctor of the Church and patron saint of all confessors. The goal of the Redemptorists is to preach Parish Missions to the most abandoned sould -- those destitue of spiritual aid.

HOW CAN WE PREPARE FOR OUR PARISH MISSION?
Firstly, pray for the success of the Mission. Then, encurae others (friends, family, neighbors)to attend. Finally, ask God for a true sorrow for sin & a real desire to change your life from sin or tepidity. In this way, you will be preparing yourself and your parish fo the extraordinary grace of the Parish Mission.

Again please take advantage of this opportunity; if you cannot make all of the Mission, then attend in part, but please do attend.

Anonymous said...

Do they (really, their priest) not have recourse to the Pope and the Ecclesia Dei Commission?

Anonymous said...

The priest (the one who wishes very much to say the EF Mass) is afraid of reprisals. I know these ecclesial thugs. If he spoke against them... they would find a way to crucify the poor man.

DaveB

David Werling said...

This is why we can not depend on the diocesan establishment to provide the TLM. We have to work to get groups like the ICKSP, FSSP, etc. into our dioceses and to establish personal parishes for the TLM.

First and foremost we have live complete and authentic Catholic lives so these groups can be provided with an abundance of priestly vocations.

Anonymous said...

I don't know how many of you are familiar with Malachi Martin I assume many of you would since you seem to be knowledgeable of different things in the Church.

Anyways I thought many of you would appreciate this interview with Malachi Martin.

I think he did a great job at presenting the state of the Church.

Malachi Martin -Tempters Hour Pt1 on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bdGMDNeU1g&feature=related

May his soul rest in peace!

Anonymous said...

"All of Long Island, New York City, and indeed, all of New York State is a wasteland for traditional Catholics. The neighboring (and less populous) state of NJ has 3 traditional personal parishes, NY has 0. It's a disgrace."

If NYC, with its one daily TLM and SIX every-Sunday TLM's (4 under the Archdiocese of New York, 2 under the Diocese of Brooklyn) is a "wasteland", just imagine how it's like in most of the rest of the world.

Anonymous said...

There comes a point when fighting the good fight becomes pointless. A waste of energy.

You are far better off spending your energy building something for the future. You have to save your own sole first!

You should leave the modernist church and either join an eastern rite Catholic church, SSPX or an Orthodox church.

The Orthodox say "I know where Grace is but I can not be sure where Grace is not." Can anyone be sure that Grace remains in the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church?

Frankly, I am leaving for an Eastern Rite of the Catholic Church.

Anonymous said...

My thanks to Anonymous for alerting us to Fr. Malachi Martin interveiw - there are nine parts. Now I understand what this man was about. May the Pope kick the devil out.

Anonymous said...

No! Where Peter is, THERE is the Universal Church.

Incidentally... my "sole" is on my shoe.... my soul... well that is in the hands of Jesus & Mary, I hope.

I love my SSPX friends... but it can not be so for me, my wife, my family. When things get tough in my house hold... how will I tell my children to stay, hang tough, suffer & lovingly correct. If I do not demonstrate that fidelity in big things, how can I expect them to learn that in little things.

NO! I make no moral judgement of any of those other options that you mentioned. But for me... WHEREVER Peter's bark is... THERE will I be... with my family and some faithful friends who will do the same thing. We may not agree with every thing from +Murphy to Rome... but we will not move out of the house and leave "mom & dad".

WE STAY. If I have to drive 2 hours or three hours to get to Mass every Sunday... I will.

It is the will of Our Most Holy Mother for me, my children, my children's children. Period!

Bob F.

Anonymous said...

Question?
Fr. Malachi said that the modernists approached Pope Pius X11 and he rebutked then said that they would eventually have their day...BUT only a day.

Can anyone show the source of this prophecy attributed to Pius X11.

Thanks.

andyjourn said...

It must be stressed that Malachi Martin (while he had probably had some good insights) was very much a sensationalist author, who was interested in selling books.

I remember during the Marian Year of 1987-88 he wrote an article, which I discovered contained about five errors in it.

Another friend of mine who has read Hostage to the Devil, says it is filled with errors.

In Rorate Coeli, so much attention is given to quoting from church documents, past and present.

This reminds me of a statement from the late Cardinal Avery Dulles SJ, "The more theology draws from the Magisterium of the Church, the richer it will be".

To understand contemporary ecclesial problems this is far better, than going to self-appointed demagogues, who often have other motives in circulating their stories

KM said...

St. Anthony's of Padua in West Orange, NJ is an Institute of Christ the King Oratory and is 50 miles away. Long trek, but it's long for me as well! High Mass every Sunday at 11 a.m.

Anonymous said...

"To understand contemporary ecclesial problems this [utilizing the Church documents] is far better, than going to self-appointed demagogues, who often have other motives in circulating their stories"

Amen.... absolutely!!!! I see Fr. Martin as a casualty of the war... but not actually a big part of the solution.

I know more than a few who went off the "deep end" and now stay home on Sunday... believing the chair is empty after having read a steady diet of these types of things.

Also, and sadly... I know folks in the 'trad movement' who have their own ideas of how the old Mass should be... and they consider themselves experts who are either too old, too experienced, or too smart to actually READ & REREAD the pre and post conciliar documents on the Holy Sacrifice, liturgical music... etc...

And so they are just as ineffective as the liberals who make things up as they go along.

I steer clear of these types when I can... and I try to be patient with them if I can't. You can identify these types if you discover for example that they believe the dialogue Mass is some kind of subversive modernist invention.

One of the reasons the EF is not growing too weill in my own diocese is because of a false 'quietism' (almost a liturgical stoicism), has taken hold of the movement here. I believe it happened accidentally... but it has happened nonetheless. This goes for some priests and laity. It explains the steady diet of bare bones low Masses. If it weren't tragic... it would almost be funny. Then they either have one of two reactions: Denial (over the problem) or disappointment (over the empty chairs).

They will either 'figure it out' on their own... or else the TLM will always be a fringe movement in this diocese. It's really up to them. But alas, time is running out.

I think this problem (minimalism) is very likely not limited to our own diocese though.

Again... it is caused by people reading other 'experts opinions' INSTEAD OF READING CHURCH DOCUMENTS.

Ave Maria!

Bob F.

David L Alexander said...

Bob F:

You say you want to relocate for the sake of your Faith and that of your household? Well, your worries are over. Move to the Diocese of Arlington, Virginia. We have great priests, we have the Traditional Mass, and because it's in the DC area, the economy is relatively stable (compared to the rest of the States). True, you'll pay twice for a house what you would in, say, Columbus, Ohio. Details, details!

This is a story of the beginnings of our diocese. Move the thingy about two-fifths of the way through, and go from there. To do that, first click here.

Anonymous said...

Thanks DaveL, I will check it out. My venerable wife has been hinting at this for a while.

vty Bob F.

David L Alexander said...

Bob L:

Contact me if you do. You know where to find me, but I can't find you.

Anonymous said...

Well said

David L Alexander ;)

Anonymous said...

Well said

David L Alexander ;)