Rorate Caeli

Ireland: "Thy own wickedness shall reprove thee, and thy apostasy shall rebuke thee"

"Catholic politicians who supported the legalisation of abortion will not be excommunicated or refused communion, the future Primate of all Ireland has indicated." (The Tablet)

I brought you into the land of Carmel,
to eat the fruit thereof, and the best things thereof:
and when ye entered in, you defiled my land,
and made my inheritance an abomination.

The priests did not say: Where is the Lord?
and they that held the law knew me not,
and the pastors transgressed against me:
and the prophets prophesied in Baal, and followed idols. ...

If a nation hath changed their gods,
and indeed they are not gods:
but my people have changed their glory into an idol.
Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this,
and ye gates thereof, be very desolate, saith the Lord. ...

Thy own wickedness shall reprove thee,
and thy apostasy shall rebuke thee.
Know thou, and see that it is an evil
and a bitter thing for thee to have left the Lord thy God,
and that my fear is not with thee, saith the Lord the God of hosts. ...

Why dost thou endeavour
to shew thy way good to seek my love,
thou who has also taught thy malices to be thy ways,
And in thy skirts is found the blood
of the souls of the poor and innocent? ...

And thou hast said: "I am without sin and am innocent:
and therefore let thy anger be turned away from me."
Behold, I will contend with thee in judgement,
because thou hast said: "I have not sinned." ...

From thence thou shalt go,
and thy hand shall be upon thy head:
for the Lord hath destroyed thy trust,
and thou shalt have nothing prosperous therein. ...

For from the least of them even to the greatest,
all are given to covetousness:
and from the prophet even to the priest,
all are guilty of deceit.

And they healed the breach of the daughter of my people disgracefully,
saying: "Peace, peace": and there was no peace.
They were confounded, because they committed abomination:
yea, rather they were not confounded with confusion,
and they knew not how to blush:
wherefore they shall fall among them that fall:
in the time of their visitation
they shall fall down, saith the Lord.
Jeremias, ii; vi


Liam Ronan said...

I wonder if the virtual moral abdication of our Irish Bishops now has reached such a pass that their scandalous, craven, and inexcusable laxity effectively makes them cooperators in facilitating abortion and, by extension, de facto excommunicants themselves?

Long-Skirts said...


Flee Ireland
The Faith is dead
Go west young man
Where the Truth is said

Where the Truth is said
At daily Mass
Where wine's Blood red
In gold not glass

In gold not glass
The wafers wait
For ordained hands
To consecrate

To consecrate
And multiply
For starving souls
God hears your cry

He hears your cry
While Bishops recline
And fornicate
With Melchisedech's line

But Melchisedech's line
Lives, fights and stands
Men, other Christs
With chrismed hands

And chrismed hands
Hell's depths do hate
And with the Bishops
Say, “Hesitate.”

Say, “Hesitate.”
While God’s plan is at hand?
It’s St. Pius the Tenth !!
Flee Ireland!!!

newguy40 said...

I really do not understand how this has happened. Why are our leaders so weak? They fear Men more than God?

"Human respect is a Tyrant" - Fr Hardon.

I am very saddened by our leaders. What can be done to stiffen their spines?

ka said...

At least the bishop speaks of the altar rails.

Renel B. Peña said...

Saint Patrick, intercede for your dear Ireland!

"It is the duty of public authority to protect the lives of the innocent by appropriate laws and penalties, especially when those whose lives are attacked and endangered are unable to protect themselves, as is particularly the case with infants in their mother's womb. If the State authorities not only fail to protect these little ones but by their laws and decrees, suffer them to be killed, and even deliver them into the hands of doctors and others for that purpose, let them remember that God is the Judge and Avenger of the innocent blood that cries from earth to heaven.”- Pope Pius XI

pmckarch said...

Given that the politicians who supported the bill are automatically excommunicated it does not require the bishops to do so. however, informing hte politicians of their excommunication, and consequent need of repentance is the greatest act of charity one could bestow on them.
The Bishops, then, while feigning charity, are actually the opposite.

David said...

Will the Pope intervene?

Servent of the Cheif said...

With all due respect Long-Skirts, why would I flee Ireland to go west when the government there is set to be a police state, has legalised abortion for decades and has far higher number and degree of cowardly bishops and liturgical abuses in both relative and absolute terms?

Irelands bishops bave betrayed the Church and God its true but Im still hoping at least one will break ranks and do what is right.

Slaveck Matacz said...

I am not suprised. Last sunday we visited the Knock Shrine, County Mayo. There's no one kneels during Transubstantiation and lifting! People using their mobile phones during the Mass even for talking. I am in nasty shock and awe untill today. My visit there is probably final reason to absolutely leave Novus Ordo.

Scott Ramsay said...

Wow, I offered my condolences to the Brazilian people, what, last week? Now I offer my sincere condolences to the Irish people. What a travesty!

Am I against anything other than the barest use of technology during mass? Sure. (I guess lighting and microphones serve a purpose at mass.)

But if I have to watch the bishop's appeal for money and whatever else on a screen during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, then I make a suggestion: Show babies in utero for the first fifteen minutes of mass -- say for an entire year -- with their four-week-old hearts beating, babies sucking their thumbs, swimming around, and so on. And if it's during mass, then the people who are "just" there to get their Sunday cards punched won't just arrive earlier or leave later, as would happen if the video were before mass or just after.

I'm not exonerating those who say they're Catholic and then are pro-choice, BUT: I believe the Church really does a LOUSY job of SHOWING the Faithful why abortion is wrong for all -- not just Catholics.

Ireland: Keep your chin up, keep the Faith. No one thought the institution of slavery could be abolished with its history stretching back thousands of years. Being an abolitionist (this time of abortion) is not going to be easy for you...but we are on the right side of history.

Peter Karl T. Perkins said...

What is needed are a few good priests who stand in the pulpit and condemn their own bishops in words as hard as cannonballs. Let the axe fall on such men. The axe which shall fall on these bishops will grind them to powder.


Long-Skirts said...

Servent of the Cheif said...

"With all due respect Long-Skirts, why would I flee Ireland to go west when the government there is set to be a police state"

I don't mean literally but go West to follow the never setting Son.

We have a mission to spread the True Faith thereby redeeming and remaking the world in the image of God. America is terrible but the Traditional Catholic Orders are growing and our young men with Priestly Vocations will fine great help here.

Dan Hunter said...

From the Interpretation of the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

"Q. 1. What does the Catholic Church teach about abortion?

A. 1. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

"Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae," [CIC, can. 1398] "by the very commission of the offense," [CIC, can. 1314] and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. [Cf. CIC, cann. 1323-1324] The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society." (C.C.C. # 2272)

"A person who procures a successful abortion incurs an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication." [Code of Canon Law 1398]

Q. 2. What does "formal cooperation in an abortion" means?

A. 2. "Formal cooperation in an abortion" means all the individual who had an abortion, the abortionist who performed the abortion(s), the nurses and other employees that assist in abortions, the administrative staff that provided facilities where abortions were performed, all the individuals who recommended/suggested an abortion, the politicians who supported abortions and/or who voted in favour of them, all the relatives who supported abortions, no matter their excuse for being in favour of it, and even the religious persons who have supported such an act by word or action.

There are no exception, either one is in favour of abortions or totally against it."

So ANY politician who supports pre-natal murder is excommunicated and cannot receive the Sacraments of the Church until they publically recant.

LeonG said...

It is entirely in keeping with all of Our Holy Father Pope St Pius X's admonitions about liberal modernism, that in the space of fewer than 50 years, the novus ordo has destroyed every truly Catholic nation across what used to be called Christendom.

Finally, Ireland has been crushed by the Eccelsiastical Springtime Lobby with its supposed discovery of The Divine Mercy, His Unconditional Love together with the super-dogma of universal tolerance & salvation.

Liam Ronan said...

But what about the bishops? Does their inaction effectively promote abortion?

Supertradmum said...

Many people here are sick about this, but if these pastors had been doing their duty, abortion would not now be law here. The laity are also to blame for being lax and tolerant. So tragic.

Athelstane said...

At least the bishop speaks of the altar rails.

Given how fast the altar rails have been ripped out in so many churches in Ireland, I assume that Archbishop Martin's comment was...just metaphorical.

Sacramental geography is not a strong point for the Novus Ordo.

It is entirely in keeping with all of Our Holy Father Pope St Pius X's admonitions about liberal modernism, that in the space of fewer than 50 years, the novus ordo has destroyed every truly Catholic nation across what used to be called Christendom.

The destruction was already in motion before the Council was ever commenced, let alone before the N.O. was promulgated. No question that Paul VI's Mass put the whole process into hyperdrive (it having fewer organic barriers to abuse and bad soteriology), but it's a symptom, not a cause, of the modernist revolution that's been at work over the last century.

Scott Ramsay said...

To the person not happy with America:

I know your heart is raw, if not bleeding. I have no idea what it is to be Irish or European. Before discounting all of us “Yankees” because we have had the national stain of legalized elective abortion for forty years, I would tell you that it is possible that you could learn a thing or two from the excruciating, extensive, and frustrating experience some of us have had in the trenches over many, way too many, years now. I apologize; I know no one reads long blog posts. Some items:

Act, organize, and pray now. The Enemy will work overtime to consolidate his gains.
Find a couple faithful priests to devote themselves to the “cause” if your bishops are as bad as some are saying. In Matthew 19:12 our Lord says that some make themselves eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven. Some of our bishops on this side of the pond have made themselves eunuchs all right, but apparently for the sheer “delight” of speaking in circles and being eunuchs. I feel your pain. (We must keep our “Catholic” schools open. We must not offend a sinner who might walk in the door – not that we intend to actually teach the sinner to turn from sin and turn to the Gospel after a good dose of Christ’s love. We must keep our tax-exempt, politically-neutral status at all costs! Life is a seemless garment.)

Find out what works and what does not work. Gory photos on signs, though they show the awful truth of abortion, turn people off and people tune them out; cute pictures of babies tug at the heartstrings of those who have the remnants of a conscience left. Bumper stickers and signs that seem to “shout” at women in “trouble” are viewed negatively in the soft-sell world we live in; the act is evil, the woman is not necessarily evil. I know of one tremendous male sidewalk counselor and the rest of the ones I know who are “good at it” are all women; the opposition views this as a women’s issue…have a guy for prayer and “security” cover who is not far away, but try to train and deploy women for talking one-on-one with pregnant women. Talking AT people does not work; listening to them, and then having them listen to fast fetal heartbeats and watching 3D ultrasounds in utero does work. If you can get people to read tracts or books, there are excellent ones out there to hand out…_Unplanned_ is excellent, for example.

I would avoid the use of the term “pro-life.” Life is a nebulous term that evokes different images for an atheist (e.g. fuzzy bunnies on warm spring days) than it does for an observant Catholic. If you’re against legalized elective abortion, you’re “pro-baby” and “pro-pregnant-women.” If you’re against euthanasia, you’re “pro-terminally ill” and “pro-senior citizen.” I would avoid jumping on one political party’s bandwagon; said hypothetical political party will have no interest in “solving” abortion…it will take them no time at all to figure out that as long as they always talk as though they’re interested in doing something about abortion, they’ll have voters in their pocket – but only as long as they never actually “solve” abortion.

Realize that this is going to be a long haul and stressful. The life of an abolitionist is never easy. You wouldn’t want a surgeon operating on you who hadn’t had a vacation in years and works seventy hours a week because he or she feels compelled to do so. You want a surgeon who takes her or his vacations and gets enough sleep at night. Take a break from the “movement” when you need one. Spend less stressful time in prayer “covering” for the one with the sign or who is doing the sidewalk counselling. Go out and do something fun after your “shift.” I like to unwind by watching the birds in the Mississippi River. The cost of watching birds? Not a penny.

Scott Ramsay said...

I assume Ireland has some form of free speech. Figure out if your protests and sign-carrying are going to be silent or not. If they’re not silent, then have ready, to-the-point, halfway charitable answers to the specious, unoriginal questions and statements that will be put to you ad nauseum. Train people if they’re going to speak; the cameraperson ignores the one hundred items of invective hurled at you and always seems to catch the one testy anti-abortion response that has happened after two hours of verbal abuse received. E.g.:

“We need to save our girls.” Yes, you’re right. Abortion has led to nine figures’ worth of men more than women in China and India. We need to end abortion so we can save our girls.

“Abortion would just take place anyway in a back alley with a coathanger.” Really? How about if we pass a law that anyone who has had an abortion performed on her is entitled to a hundred thousand euros from the abortionist if she can prove that there was an abortion performed? I bet abortion would end in short order.

“I cannot believe that a Catholic even has the nerve to stand out here and act self-righteously after the child abuse scandal.” Well, then I guess I’m standing out here for atonement. I’ve never abused a child, but I think those who burn children’s skins off with saline solutions or suck them up a vacuum tube ARE abusing children. Watch an abortion some time on the internet…I promise you that you will not tell me it’s just tissue. Watch how hard that baby fights to get away…I promise you that you won’t have a dry eye.

“You ought to be out here carrying a sign begging forgiveness for the sins of your Church instead of ‘yelling’ at vulnerable women.” I’m not yelling at anybody. I am talking to you because you are talking to me. Was slavery in this country wrong? (Fill in the blank for some dark chapter perpetrated by the Irish nation.) “Yes.” Then, I’ll tell you what; you and I can sit down, write out signs begging forgiveness for slavery, and then we’ll walk around town for an hour wearing our “sandwich-boards.” After that would you please come out here and hold a sign for an hour with me?

“You have no right to impose your religious views on everyone.” Is murder of an atheist a crime? Of course it is, and indeed it should be a crime. Killing a unique human being with a beating heart and unique human DNA is wrong no matter who is pregnant.

“I think it’s disgusting that you stand out here with your little daughter.” She’s seven and learning the Ten Commandments. I think I have to teach her on her level. Right now she’s learning about “Thou shalt not kill.” She also learns, “Thou shalt not commit adultery” as one of the commandments. She doesn’t need to know all the details. Adultery is a married person falling in love with someone other than a spouse. Killing is harming unborn babies.

“You people are worse than the terrorists! I mean it!” No, ma’am. A terrorist takes innocent life to make an ideological or a political point. That sounds more like radical feminism run amok than my attempt to save lives. I do admire your passion though and I ask for your prayers, if you’re of a mind to pray for me. I will pray for you too.

“This is a women’s issue!” I respectfully disagree. I used to be a zygote, an embryo, a fetus, and then I was dependent on her good will for years thereafter. Or, if you wish, I was an “expendable, parasitic organism” growing inside my mother’s body for nine months and then a burden on her resources for years afterward. But for the sake of argument, let’s just say that this is a women’s issue. Why don’t we have all the voting-age women in this country vote in a binding referendum every ten years on when human life begins? I am going to guess that elective abortion would not be legal all nine months of pregnancy like it is now. (The U.S. has something called “Doe versus Bolton” and I don’t know the specifics of Ireland’s abortion policies.)

Scott Ramsay said...

“There are too many people in the world. You ‘super-Catholics’ want to destroy the environment!” Well, thank you, for calling me a “super-Catholic”; I consider it a compliment. I guess genocide does preserve the environment, but because genocide is wrong, we’re going to have to find a different way to save the environment, aren’t we?

When people go on a rant and are hellbent on anything but dialogue, learn how to stand your ground. I put on a blank face and look at people for umpteen minutes until they run out of breath. In my mind I half-pray for them and half-listen to them. Then I ask them if they’re done. If so, I address a couple things they have said if they don’t storm off immediately. Other people I know kneel and pray a rosary, aloud or silently, for the person doing the pro-abort screaming.

I'll be praying for you, Ireland.

Servent of the Cheif said...

Our protests here in Ireland against the abortion legislation were loud and large and throoughly ignored and when they could not be ignored the standard media tactic image manipulation and lies about numbers cropped up yet again. You know, taking images of the elderly members of the pro-life crowd exclusively, cleverly cropping it to leave out the majority of the pro-lifers and taking pictures of the groups of pro-choicers (young ones if they can get ahold of them) to make them look more influential and commanding of the Irish zeitgeist.

Dymphna said...

Maybe Ireland was never what we thought it was. Maybe, deep down it really was Butcher Boy and Angela's Ashes and the only thing holding it back was the practice of the Faith.

Athelstane said...

Those are some excellent suggestions, Scott.

Molly said...

Read the Ryan Report and the Murphy Report if you want information about what happened in the Catholic Church in Ireland. Life has not been held dear there for quite some time.

Just another mad Catholic said...

What Seriously gets my goat is the likes of Supertradmom saying that we the laity are ALWAYS to blame for anything as far as I can see (from her posts here, other sites and her own blog) ANY situation where we the laity are not publicly whipping ourselves to the bone en masse whilst praying the Rosary before the Blessed Sacrament is lax.

I hate to have to remind her that most of the people commenting here have to put food on the table for their families and themselves as well a put a roof over their head. It may be very well for her to pray all day every day but some of us have to do the W.O.R.K word everyday, sleep and rest from the day's labors. Sorry if that makes me lax but that's just the way it is.

Ramadan said...

@Liam Ronan
Doesn't this also apply to judges who have really been the route of introducing abortion via their extraordinary judgment in the X case? I can't recall a single member of the judiciary speaking out against this other hat the late Judge O'Hanlon. Where were all the other Catholics in the Law Library and among the judges, active or retired?

Liam Ronan said...

A judge who finds himself/herself in a position where he/she cannot in good conscience adjudicate in favour of a litigant, law, or practice which approves or furthers the abortion agenda may do a number of things (in my opinion).
One, recuse himself/herself from hearing such matters as the decision might be biased or give the impression of bias;
Two, resign from the bench stating that the reason for so doing is a matter of conscience; or
Three, keep your views to yourself and quietly work from the bench to advance the pro-life cause.
There are other options, of course, but those were the ones available to me.

Dan Hunter said...

Bishops who say nothing to public figures who support pre-natal murder are also involved in formal cooperation with murder, and by current Canon Law are laetae-sententiae excommunicated.

Barbara said...

Dear Just another mad Catholic,

Well, I think Supertradmum has a good point when she says that "The laity are also to blame for being lax and tolerant." Totally true.
It is also totally true that the current leadership in the Church is very, very poor, generally speaking - but it is also up to the laity to be well-informed and active in fighting these issues of Catholic ethics. We can not always blame the hierarchy (easy as it is) for a lackadaisacal practically meaningless approach to the faith.

Is this not supposed to be the era of ADULT CATHOLICS as the post-conciliar Church is fond of babbling on about? And personal responsibility? What about that?

No, we lay are responsible for our own salvation,maybe not equally to blame as the lousy leaders are - as they really do have a postion to change things concretely should they wish and their resposibilities are grave before God.

Whether we have to work 10 hours a day or have dozens of children to look after is not the point....
I think Supertradmum is totally right....

And I loved that poem Long-Skirts - very clever!

David said...

The problem is, when lay Catholics tried to act against societal evils and bishops opposed them it was very difficult for Catholics to know the line between legitimate obedience and complicity in evil.

Ramadan said...

@Liam Ronan
An excellent and thoughtful answer. Clearly it calls for a prudent judgement between Two and Three. I presume an overriding factor would have to be which yielded a better outcome. I take it from the late Justice O'Hanlon's public statements that there is nothing to stop a retired judge, after a lifetime of quietly working from the bench to advance the pro-life cause, from making comments that might be perceived as critical of fellow judges or the judicial system: hence my astonishment that there has been not a whisper from those emminent men now gone from the bench but still capable of being a tour-de-force in Irish political and civil discourse.

Ramadan said...

With all due respects I think that comment is simply ridiculous. You just as easily say (and equally without justification, let me add) that "The traditionalists are also to blame for being lax and tolerant" or "The NO attendees are also to blame for being lax and tolerant".
Despite the best effort of many of our fine priests, this law has been enacted. Blaming the laity in a broadbrush swipe is unhelpful.

Long-Skirts said...

Ramadan said...

With all due respects...that "The traditionalists are also to blame for being lax and tolerant"

When we laity approached our NO Parish Priests and teachers we were basically laughed at. One NO nun told me to take my children to the Lutheran Church down the street for summertime Vacation Bible School. When I said, "but Sister, they're heretics." She smiled and answered, "Oh, no dear, we don't say that anymore." After being battered down for many years and after pulling my kids out of sex ed "religion" classes I finally had it and made the decision, kneeling in prayer in front of Our Lady of Perpetual Help, and realzied I must follow the St. Pius X Priests down the other street from the Lutheran Church. When the NO Nun found out that we had put our children in the SSPX Academy and were assisting at their Holy Sacrifice of the Mass she phoned me and said, "Mrs. Long-Skirts, you can't send your children to the SSPX Academy...why... why...they're schismatic!"

Filled with the Holy Ghost I reassured her, "Oh, no Sister, we don't say that anymore."

ubrington said...

The number of people at the last demo in Dublin opposing abortion was 60,000 plus. As a percentage of our population, that's similar to the percentage of French who appeared in Paris to oppose the same-sex marriage laws.

The French were hailed at that time for standing up in such numbers.

Sure, the Church leadership here is pathetic. Liturgically, much of the country is a wasteland. Is that actually news? What do you expect? Ireland is a 'Mainstream' Catholic Country, its going to reflect the general dire state of liturgy and leadership that exists in the Church in general.

Like every other country, the uniformity of mediocrity exhibited by the church leadership doesn't mean that there is a similar uniformity of mediocrity in the Catholic lay faithful.