Rorate Caeli

Absolutely null and utterly void,
and absolutely void and utterly null


Anglicans are delightfully odd: they manage to approve the extension of orders that do not exist to people who could not receive them anyway, even if they were real. What next?

Vanity and ambition drive this fabricated debate... A holy life and eternal salvation for the love of Jesus Christ: these are the objectives all Christians - clergymen, laymen, and laywomen - should pursue, as the memory of Saint Elizabeth of Portugal reminds us.

Regnum mundi, et omnem ornatum saeculi contempsi propter amorem Domini mei Iesu Christi: Quem vidi, quem amavi, in quem credidi, quem dilexi. (The kingdom of this world and all the beauty of life I have despised, for the love of Jesus Christ my Lord: Whom I saw, Whom I loved, in Whom I believed, for Whom I longed. - Matins for today's Feast).

8 comments:

  1. Welcome to all, I can speak from my own experience the move will not be diffcult. Unless of course there is the hope of deals for preserving any 'identity' etc. which will will potentially marginalise the newbies and for the precedent this may set.

    Also, there should be no assumption that any of those converting should be admitted to Holy Orders. Conversion should not be undertaken with the hope one can continue a ministry. Rigorous catechesis, not RCIA, is the first step and for converting big-wigs a public retraction of heresis and affirmation of faith is required, in the same way it should have been for Tony Blair, this would avoid any scandal.

    This news should not be blown out of all proportion, this is not a formal reunion between an ecclesial group and Rome like the Marionites and hopefully soon the Armenians. There should be NO DEALS re any usage of the liturgy etc., if the SSPX can be given as much stick as carrot so should anyone else.

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  2. Harsh words from a new Catholic... A little charity wouldn't go amiss.

    Anglicans are, on the whole, well-meaning people who love dearly Our Lord and Saviour and try to live according to His will.

    They have arguments and reasons for believing that their Holy Orders are perfectly valid - even the Orthodox don't question them. So it's not as if they are just a bunch of sillies who need some sense knocked into them by a harsh-sounding new Catholic.

    The world would be a rather unpleasant place if everyone spoke in such a way with anyone who happened to share a different opinion. I wonder if your own recent conversion would have been hastened had someone taken such a tone with you.

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  3. "Harsh"? I said "delightfully"... Charity, always, but charity in Truth.

    "On the whole"? Really?... Vicki Gene Robinson was elected "Bishop" of New Hampshire by popular support... There was overwhelming support for the "ordination" of women in all divisions of the General Synod of the CofE yesterday...

    True: there ARE many good Anglicans, certainly. That is why Anglicanism has been a strong source of wonderful converts since its early days.

    On the matter of "Anglican Orders", Rome has spoken. Certainly, peculiar cases may warrant peculiar solutions provided by the Supreme Authority of the Church.

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  4. "...an ecclesial group and Rome, like the Marionites..."
    They're Maronites, and have been Catholic since the beginning.

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  5. The sad thing is that technically, it is entirely possible that some Anglicans do have valid orders; the Old Catholics of Utrecht have been in communion with Canterbury and York since the 1930s, and Old Catholic bishops have ordained many Anglican bishops in conservative circles of the Anglo-Catholic movement.

    As early as a few decades ago it was suggested that almost all serving CofE bishops might be able to trace their orders to the valid Old Catholic prelates. Sadly, this means that Anglicanism is in no-man's land, unable to decide whether it is Protestant or Apostolic in character. The only viable option for the "Catholic" faction is reunion. Please keep praying for them folks!

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  6. "They have arguments and reasons for believing that their Holy Orders are perfectly valid - even the Orthodox don't question them.

    Which Orthodox are you talking to?

    Which converts from Anglicanism to Orthodoxy that you know of have been accepted as ordained clergy?

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  7. They have arguments and reasons for believing that their Holy Orders are perfectly valid - even the Orthodox don't question them.

    Not to be too pointed, but that's a bunch of clap trap. I know of no Orthodox jurisdiction which accepts Anglican orders. There were a couple of periods where there was some low level dialogue between the Anglicans and Orthodoxy. But that largely died out in the early part of the last century. A brief blessing for inter-communion was even granted by Bp. (now St.)Raphael of Brooklyn until he found out that he had been given a very shaded version of Anglican doctrine by a few High Church "bishops." Once he got the real story he very quickly retracted his blessing for the inter-communion.

    In modern times the only debate in Orthodoxy about Anglican sacraments is whether we should receive them as converts through economy (i.e. without baptism) or require them to receive a true Orthodox baptism. I favor the latter position, especially given all of the bizarre things one hears of in the Episcopal Church these days.

    ICXC NIKA
    John

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  8. Perhaps they could adopt the Old Mass in English? Many of their ilk, prior to the Novus Ordo, used a missal in all respects, except language, identical to the pre-1962 Missal - only referring, in prayers or the Pope, as "inter pares". Their churches are better furnished and decorated than those iconoclasts post-Vatican II which we have had to suffer. But remember - The Thirty Nine Articles in their Book of Commin Prayer.

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