Rorate Caeli

Comment: the Mighty Lobby and fear of the Past
Plus: the pains of a spiteful Vaticanist

With the storm less strong at the moment, we will be quite honest: we were not very bothered by the words pronounced by Pope Francis to the religious of CLAR and that we were the first to bring to worldwide attention. Considering the whole text, we are pleased with most of it: on the "gay lobby" that is mighty and powerful within the Vatican and his denunciation of it, on Vatican corruption, on new age sisters, on old orders with no vocations and a Materialistic approach to the assets given to them by Catholics for the work of God and not for their own selves... Was he critical of an apparently Traditionalist group? Possibly (we do not know to which specific organizations he was referring). On the other hand, he never stops talking of his greatest spiritual influence, his grandmother, who could only be counted as a Traditional Catholic these days... 

So, while he is strong in his call for Catholics not to be afraid of the future, he seems to be somewhat very afraid of the past. In his own meditation for his daily mass at Domus Sanctae Marthae today, the Pope said, "We take the values of this culture a little bit from here, a little bit from there ... They want to make this law? All right, let’s go ahead and make this law. Let’s broaden the boundaries here a little. In the end, let me tell you, this is not true progress. It is adolescent progressivism: just like teenagers who in their enthusiasm want to have everything and in the end? You slip up ... It’s like when the road is covered in ice and the car slips and go off track... This is the other temptation at the moment! We, at this moment in the history of the Church, we cannot go backwards or go off the track!"

Quite true about "teen Progressivism". But would it be so bad to move backwards if that meant having more Catholics with as firm a faith as that of his own nonna?... Better than having a powerful "lobby" manipulating this same faith...


In a very belated article on the Pope's words to CLAR, a certain Vaticanist who has not had a big story for some time says today:

The reference to traditionalism sparked an immediate reaction among professed Ratzingerians who pointed to a discontinuity with Benedict XVI. But these censors got it wrong. It was the then cardinal Joseph Ratzinger himself who spoke about the “Pelagianism of the pious".

Traditionalists are very grateful to Benedict XVI, but they are surely not "Ratzingerians". Which is why no Traditional website spoke of any "discontinuity" with the previous pontificate because of these specific words.

On the other hand, the Vaticanist above is the one, in fact, who can be numbered among the "widows" of the past pontificate: he used to fed big stories in those years, provided by those who thought he was a friend of the Pope, when he was nothing of the sort. It is not our fault that he and other Italian Vaticanists (and a famous American one) slept on the job for almost 24 hours in one of the most exciting stories of the young Pontificate - actually, the most exciting story, because it is in fact the first one that bridges the critical events of 2011 and 2012 (including, but not limited, to "Vatileaks") and the current Pontificate, through the mention of the mighty Vatican "lobby" by the new Pope; a lobby that, all things seem to point, was not exactly foreign to those events...


  1. If I were a Catholic priest on loan to US Diocese, and blogging - I'd be keeping my mouth shut about all this. In fact, I'd put up a pic of a Pope and a Bishop of Rome face to face, and come up with a tagline that is a pure cognitive dissonance: "Reading Paul Through Peter" or something like that.
    You, Rorate, were on top of things - keep it up. It's becoming apparent, that for self-preservation or not, other sites are becoming rapidly irrelevant, if only to read an expected dose of "it will be alright, look, he talks about the Devil..."
    The scary thing is that there will be another unavoidable slip-up next week, coming from a Roman hotel ...

  2. The pope’s confirmation of a “gay lobby” inside the Curia — the governing and administrative body of the whole Church — is extremely alarming. A sodomite Curia: what could be more diabolic? For how long have they ruled and how much subversion are they responsible for, including with regard to child-molestation facilitation?

  3. Personally, I think there is a great danger in speaking 'off the cuff' (charming and engaging as it may be) if no official transcript of the Holy Father's, aka the Bishop of Rome's, remarks are made available for the enlightenment and edification of the Universal Church.
    There is something unsettling about much of this.
    As the Americans are want to say 'something doesn't quite pass the smell test'.
    I shall pray that much harder (yes the rosary) for both Pope Francis and Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.

  4. It's getting harder and harder to "read Francis through Benedict", as Father Z. has been suggesting. The evidence of RUPTURE is overwhelming, and there is simply no denying it.

  5. Those who wish to understand how ridiculous it is to call a Ratzingerian a traditionalist need to google for this article:

    The Oath Against Modernism
    vs. the "Hermeneutic of Continuity” by John Vennari

  6. What is "Pelagianism of the pious"? I could only find that it is a condemned heresy by the Church. If Pope Benedict spoke of this, I am sure he spoke of it in the context of the truth. I'm sure it was not a mere "off the cuff" remark. If the SSPX has not spoken on this, one has to remember that at this time they are not openly speaking much about anything. They know that there are those in Rome who are just waiting for the Society to make just one perceived wrong move in order to do what they have been waiting to do. That is to attempt to do away with traditional minded Catholics altogether. When the Society does decide to finally speak up, watch out! They will be unleashing a storm of Catholic Truth to defend the Church based on the perennial teachings of the Church.

  7. The Holy Father said,"We cannot go backwards", these words ring true. We cannot go back to the silly season of the Church. We must continue with the "Reform of the reforms", and move forward. Move forward to the restoration of the Church, by eradicating the modernist heresy. This can only be done through the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Bl. John XXlll Ora Pro Nobis!

  8. "The pope’s confirmation of a “gay lobby” inside the Curia — the governing and administrative body of the whole Church — is extremely alarming. A sodomite Curia: what could be more diabolic? For how long have they ruled and how much subversion are they responsible for, including with regard to child-molestation facilitation?"

    I agree Mr. Hoffman. What is more alarming that some are not shocked about it's like everybody knows and nobody does anything. It's like oh well we all knew about that - kind of thing - what's new? Unbeleivable. Incomprehensible. This goes beyond the sinfulness that is in every human being and I am very aware of my own! But this is set in sin, built in evil dwelling in heart of the Church!

    Kick them out Holy Father! We will sustain you with our prayers and Our Lord will be most pleased with you!
    Kick them out, I say! - enough is enough - and this might help to save their souls that they will surely risk losing should they continue with this "homo-heresy" as Father OKO coined it.

    I prayed for all at Adoration today.

    Hammer of Heretics,great St. Anthony pray and intercede for Pope Francis on this your feast day!

  9. Anchorite, I saw "a Catholic priest on loan to US Diocese, and blogging" just last night in Madison, WI where he and I also were elected to the board of a local organization for the old Mass, of which he is the President, having been nominated for such by our bishop. So, he's moving forward constructively as we all should be. A while back this Society did a spiritual bouquet for our bishop, who was appreciative, maybe we should do one for Pope Francis, who, whether appreciative or simply respectful perhaps because of not comprehending fully, is the Vicar of Christ and is not our enemy, but may his enemies not prevail over him.

  10. Chesterton spoke of it as "the democracy of the dead." This papacy is indeed afraid of Tradition (and all the Rosaries, it seems, that come with it!) "Pontiff FEARS past" should be the headline. Pelagianism is believing one can sanctify oneself, thru a myriad of ways or inventions, outside The Church. In itself, this absolutely captures all errors of the post v-2Church. It's a bit like Obama speaking against incursions against privacy! Wonderfully and deliciously laughable!

    This site is outstanding. May God Bless your continued, and much needed, work.



Comment boxes are debate forums for readers and contributors of RORATE CÆLI.

Please, DO NOT assume that RORATE CÆLI contributors or moderators necessarily agree with or otherwise endorse any particular comment just because they let it stand.


(1) This is our living room, in a deeply Catholic house, and you are our guest. Please, behave accordingly. Any comment may be blocked or deleted, at any time, whenever we perceive anything that is not up to our standards, not conducive to a healthy conversation or a healthy Catholic environment, or simply not to our liking.

(2) By clicking on the "publish your comment" button, please remain aware that you are choosing to make your comment public - that is, the comment box is not to be used for private and confidential correspondence with contributors and moderators.

(3) Any name/ pseudonym/ denomination may be freely used simply by choosing the third option, "Name/URL" (the URL box may be left empty), when posting your comment - therefore, there is no reason whatsoever to simply post as "Anonymous", making debate unnecessarily harder to follow. Any comment signed simply as "Anonymous" will be blocked.

Thank you!