Rorate Caeli

World Youth Day Program -- and Vanishing Latin

The Latin in Latin America is becoming harder and harder to find, and the "World Youth Day" liturgical events over the next few days will be no exception.

The Vatican's Office for the Liturgical Celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff has released this week's World Youth Day program in Rio de Janeiro here.  As you can see, Latin has been almost entirely removed from the novus ordo celebrations by Pope Francis.

Compare this week's program with the one from the last International World Youth Day trip, to Madrid in 2011, by Pope Benedict XVI, here. Latin was said or sung for the heart of the novus ordo liturgies, especially during the preface and canon.  The liturgies were far from traditional Masses, but the week of Latin at the core at least offered a teachable moment for the million-plus youth assembled there.

Catholic News Service, the official media outlet of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, looked at World Youth Day and the "personal stamps" of Popes John Paul II, Benedict and Francis.  Of note was CNS' observation on the shift in tone from JPII to Benedict:

Under Pope Benedict, the evening vigil was transformed from a rally into a mass moment of eucharistic adoration, surprisingly silent and devout, given the fact that it involved tens of thousands of young people on their knees in the dirt on a wide open field.

Pope Francis is flying from Rome to Rio today.  Fox News Latino sums up the main event this week here:

Mammoth crowds are expected to attend a Mass he will celebrate on Rio's Copacabana beach during his trip to his home continent.

A reminder to any traditional Catholic youth attending:  there is a place of liturgical refuge for much of the week here.


  1. Our language Patrimony in the Latin Rite Church is returning at Papal Ceremonies,

    "Brick by brick"

    or should I say:

    "mud waddle by mud waddle."

  2. As disappointed as I am by the lack of Latin in the WYD Mass, I'm hardly surprised. It seems clear to me Francis has little or no use for Latin and is likely the first Pope not to know Latin in any meaningful way. Maybe he learned the language for a time, but he was ordained after VCII when vernacular was already in use.

    Instead of working within the confines of the Church, even as we've known it since VCII, Francis is actively working to rewrite the very core of the position he holds and, along with it, likely how the Catholics of the world view their own faith. That Latin is quickly diminishing should surprise no one.

    As WYD kicks off (a total waste of time in my book), we'll hear the Pope talk and sound as if he's a Marxist economist, but how much we hear about the faith he leads is a question mark.

  3. Liturgy?

    he hasn't got a clue about beauty or transcendence and spits on both.

  4. Please, please, we need to correct the misconception of ignorant statements expressed both here and elsewhere about the so-called loss of Latin in the church.

    It is actually the total abandonment of Latin in the NO church which is the factor. On the contrary, in the Latin Rite Church genuinely devoted to the use of Latin in both liturgy and in doctrinal expression, it moves forward, slowly but determinedly.

    Hence, when we are educated in sound Catholic liturgy and doctrine it can quickly be appreciated why this process does not depend on a single pope but upon that which has already been long-established and guaranteed by conciliar and papal decrees. Pre-conciliar papacies and councils have implemented all the necessary work for faithful and truly traditional Roman Catholics to insist that nothing else will suffice.

    The NO does not see Latin in any other than remotely utilitarian terms for some transient liturgical enterprise leading to linguistic hybridisation. This is completely unacceptable to Roman Catholics who desire a full, authentic restoration without any stultifying or misleading compromises.

    It is time many on this site and elsewhere understood it.

  5. Do not speak of "the Latin Rite Church" and the "NO Church" as if they are two different Churches.

    1. Yes, I agree. Where I live it is not easy to get to a TLM and the petrol to get there costs a fortune. If we could have at least one Mass on Sunday in the Latin Rite at every church I am sure it would eventually be the most attended Mass. I know lots of people don't know TLM is still being said. It needs to be offered everywhere. I think the NO priests have no knowledge of how to serve a TLM and the older priests are too rusty to give it a try. If only the Bishops/Arch Bishop could get interested. There needs to be some encouragement for the priests to get clued up, ask for help and get things started. I am certain the lack of interest or lack of courage in our priests is the MAIN obstacle in getting the TLM into all the parishes. The people will come if it is offered close to home.

  6. A reminder to any traditional Catholic youth attending: there is a place of liturgical refuge for much of the week here.

    WYD's even under Pope Benedict, have always had their problematic aspects. Too much entertainment, not quite enough worship.

    I hope, however, that the Rorate editors will give us some reports from Juventem's activities. Whatever else has happened in Rio, they have been granted a stunning church in which to celebrate their liturgies, and it appears that Juventutem will have their most robust presence ever.

  7. Anonymous9:11 PM

    Juventutem will always get space here if they email us reports.

  8. Actually Boniface I came to the conclusion after banging my head against a brick wall for years to no avail that it really is a different religion. Not just a "repackaging of the old" as many neo Catholics would like to believe. And as time goes on and the revolution marches on it will be harder and harder to reconcile the two. PAX

  9. Unfortunately, Boniface they are in effect two distinct movements whether you like it or not. Post-conciliar papacies and the liberal modernists have made this so.


  10. I know a priest who went to WYD in Spain. There were thousands of kids going to Confession. He was busy the whole time he was in the confessional.

    Yes, some aspects of the whole thing aren't good. We can be depressive about that, or we can pray, and work for the good of the whole Church, and sacrifice for those intentions.

  11. "Do not speak of "the Latin Rite Church" and the "NO Church" as if they are two different Churches."


    While we are told this repeatedly by Rome, and "intrinisically" they are both the same Sacrifice,

    but, "extrinsically" they are as different as Cuban "Montecristos" are from Dominican "Montecristos".

    It is one of the main reasons for the loss of Faith in the world.

    When will the institutional Church wake up to this fact?

  12. During the Reign of Bl. John Paul ll. One certain year that the Jesuits had their General Chapter meeting in Rome, Bl. John Paul ll asked the Jesuits this question, "Are the Jesuits still Catholic?". I would like to see Pope Francis interviewed. I would like to hear what his view of Christ's Catholic Church is. It would be great for Traditional youth to ask him many questions at WYD. I have never questioned a Pope before, but with Pope Francis I have many questions. If he so dislikes just about everything orthodox in the Church, then why did he accept his election to the Papacy? Pope Francis seems like one, in one of those comedy movies where someone comes in and breaks all the rules, the rule keepers turn out to be corrupt and the rule breaker in the end is the Hero who has saved the day.

  13. If the Pope is eschewing Latin, the basis of both Spanish and Portuguese, I hope he will not make the common mistake of many hispano-parlantes that Portuguese is a dialect of Spanish that will be understood.

  14. @BONIFACE said...
    Do not speak of "the Latin Rite Church" and the "NO Church" as if they are two different Churches.

    After moving From Africa to the USA, it became quite clear to me within a few years that the people in the pews and I did not have a communion of faith.

    We did not share a common faith. The Church I knew from my Childhood does not exist in the Ordinary pews of the Catholic Church in America. It does not exist in the pulpit either.

    The only thing we share is sacraments, but What we know to be the faith as its received and transmitted and practiced, We are not one faith. The only faith I recognize here in America, though I grew up in a completely NO enviroment is the FSSP faith.

    Further the NO & EF are two completely separate rites. They are only one becouse the Church say they are. But as experienced by the faithful, its not the same rite.

  15. @Dan Hunter

    " different as Cuban "Montecristos" are from Dominican "Montecristos".

    Made me chuckle. Good call.

    Besides, LeonG didn't argue between "the NO Church and the Latin Rite Church". He argued between "the NO Church and the Latin Rite Church genuinely devoted to the use of Latin in both liturgy and in doctrinal expression". Nothing false there.

  16. In speaking on this question (LATIN) Alfons Cardinal Stickler stated that: “The vulgar tongue has often vulgarized the Mass itself, and the translation of the original Latin has resulted in serious doctrinal misunderstanding and error.... This Babel of common worship results in a loss of external unity in the worldwide Catholic Church, which was once unified in a common voice.... We must admit that only a few decades after the reform of the liturgical language, we have lost that former possibility of praying and singing together even in the great international gatherings such as Eucharistic Congresses, or even during meetings with the Pope as the external center of unity of the church. We can no longer sing and pray together”. -- The Theological Attractiveness of the Tridentine Mass,” a speech given on May 20, 1995 in Fort Lee, New Jersey apud Catholic Family News, (II:7, July 1995),

  17. Well, World Youth Day is not a Catholic event anyway but a NewChurch secular humanist Woodstock, complete with aural trash in place of music. So it is a blessing that Latin, the sonorous and noble language of prayer, be not associated with it.


  18. Well, Muv, I'm sure Pope Francis' next appointment will be an SSPX bishop to head up the CDF, that way he can double bluff the SSPX while triple bluffing the Neo-Catholics, and simply single bluffing the liberals.

    Maybe he will go all in and appoint Pope Ratzinger as the Vatican entertainment coordinator. Now that would be a brilliant move. Imagine all the closet Mozart fans he would out with that one!



  19. Mr. Perkins,

    While I share, I think, many of your convictions regards the Faith, only one not thinking of history could conclude that the Church of Christ, the Roman Catholic Church, has always been expressed, lived, or even seen, amid good taste, or good morals.

    Yes, the Church is the womb of science, art, learning, etc., but for centuries, those darn sinners always tend to get in the way.

  20. The Church is breaking up into linguistic blocks. It dvides peoles and does not unite. English is the most widely spoken langauge in the world. The use of local languages in the liturgy alienates those who in the globised world think nothing of singing sing pop songs in English which they do not understand! Yet we do not use Latin which is our common patrimony. My own gut level feeling is I am not interested in participating in the liturgy in which a foreign langauge is spoken by those who do not belong to my own ethnic, lingustic, cultural and racial group! Why? because I don not feel I belong and nor do they. I am sure it is a view that non English speakers and other feel towards me. We are "wogs" to eachother. That is why Latin is perfect. It is something beyond groups and belongs to all Western Catholic Christians and it unites.

  21. Anonymous1:24 AM

    Well, you take the boy out of the ghetto, but not the ghetto out of the boy. Sadly.

  22. Anonymous1:34 AM

    A reminder to any traditional Catholic youth attending: there is a place of liturgical refuge for much of the week here.

    It causes me to wonder why Traditional youth would want to go to an event like WYD anyway. I suppose the main purpose would be to see the Pope in person and to connect with other youth in the Faith. At the same time, I can only think of it in my terms and realize this would not be a good thing, spiritually or practically.

    It's great there is a magnificent church dedicated for the Tridentine Mass while they are there anyway.

  23. If Pope Benedict was lauded for using his Supreme Authority to introduce the novelty of the Extraordinary Form, and strangley argue that decades of practice did not point to the fact a Rite was abrogated, and introduce the further novelty of The Ordinariate, to allow those not formed or schooled in the true faith to become Priests, why is the current Bishop of Rome wrong to be seen to be faithful to the teachings of a major Council, being marked by a Year of Faith promulgated by Pope Benedict himself,and to continue genuine Reform of the Reform? The Bishop of Rome either has Supreme Authority, or he does not, and people assent to it, or choose to loosen the Communion that exists, or break it completely.

  24. There was an unwritten (?) principle before, that every Cathedral should offer at least High Mass in Latin, se the people should hear the consecration and the prayers in the official and traditional language of the Roman-Catholic Church. When did that good idea vanish? Cardinal Stickler was right, even the prayer of Our Lord can be distorted in new translations. Thanks to card. Stickler we had the very first "indult" paving the way to Summorum. A great man of the Church.

  25. What is the unspoken rationale for World Youth Day? By concentrating hordes of youth in a city it is to disguise the loss of 2 generations of youth to the Church - the victims of post Vatican II liturgical disintegration with patronising "youth Masses", defective catechesis and gormless ecumabnia with every religion and none which readily bred religious indifference.
    Once again Pope Francis has headed back to the post Vatican II 1960's timewarp and the ever receding introverted pseudo Catholic ghetto it created.
    After 50 years how soon can we anticipate a stage show entitled 'Vatican II: the musical'?

  26. Most agree that the NO has bred all kinds of manifestitations of iconoclasms and self centered liturgies. But moreso, the NO has brought unheard of ugliness in liturgy, art and architecture. And when the NO liturgies are « beautiful » or seem to be « properly executed » although valid they remain beautiful illusions somewhat like a beautiful cut flowers. They will not produce fruits. And this is the remarkable thing about the NO : it is asphyxiating the Church to death. The only liturgy that is done according to the recommendations of Sacrosanctum Concilium is the liturgy of all times. A last word about latin : although the official language of the roman empire, it was by no means the language of all the cultures subjected to the empire, no more than it is today our language; for most, it was and will remain a foreign language and the official language of the Church. The WYD? For sure the Holy Spirit is behind … as always, with one inch behind, the devil. Claude


  27. I want to see if he urges the millions of frenzied youth to confess their sins. Will he emphasize the connection between Confession and Communion? I will wait to see. I'm sure we will hear lots about re-ordering the world's economies, but will he confront the young masses with the necessity of conversion, personal holiness? Will he condemn in the strongest terms pre-marital sex? On TV? Let's see.

  28. Claude that's way too harsh. Some NO people are what's known as cafeteria Catholics - they pick and chose which parts of the faith they will live by. Abortion is wrong for contraception but ok if the blood tests show a potential problem. You don't really have to go to Mass every Sunday as long as you go on special occasions. There isn't ACTUALLY a devil or a hell so you just have to live a reasonable life and not murder anyone. There's nothing wrong with being homosexual and adopting a baby it's just another type of lifestyle........etc. etc. The reason some Catholics think this way is because the priests in the pulpit and the educators at the Catholic schools are not saying otherwise. The sermons ( homilies) are wishy washy and lets all love one another fluff. The priests need better training at the seminaries. It's their job to keep the parishioners on the right path. Their job!! I go to TLM and to NO for various reasons. I know the people at TLM have strong beliefs and understand their Faith and the Word of God. I know that many of the NO folk have got no clue whatsoever, but I blame that entirely on the Church. When we are given a directive from our Bishop/Pope that it's ok to have Communion in the hand, who is going to argue about it? Not many people because they trust in the church leaders. We look to them for guidance. If it's all turned to a mess it's their fault. Having said that, there are still plenty of (usually older) NO people who are very strong in their Faith and nothing like the cafeteria Catholics I mentioned. I feel the presence of God at both types of Mass. I agree that some people have totally lost their way but I think your criticism of the NO is a bit strong. I believe if TLM was offered in local parishes people would come and give it a try and LOVE it. The lost sheep would be found.

  29. we inour Trditional Enclaves have no idea what a tiny remnant we are of the Church. In Brazil alone there are literally hundreds of thousands of 'catholic' liberation thousands of village 'circles' who seldom see a priest (and seldom create one). There are vast Third World Catholic charismatic movements that are literally 100 times as large as the Traditionalist '1962' Catholics. We have no idea how ad it is.

  30. JTS, I don't know that Claude is being far too harsh. I would have agreed with you not so long ago - but I am becoming convinced now of the contrary. Yes, the New Mass is valid if offered correctly - (because it is Church law) but I am in the process of reading how the Council's CONSILIUM massacred Holy Mass and set about DELIBERATELY to change the theolgy of the Eucharist. They even thought about eliminating Ash Wednesday but worried about the effects that it would have on the people - so decided that that was too drastic - for the time being! (my exclamatory note!)Can you imagine? This is not to mention the countless botched-up translations from the Latin which altered the orginal meaning. I am disgusted at what they did. May Almighty God have mercy on these unscrupulous men in their attempt " to protestantize" Holy Mother Church all in the name of a false ecumenism!

    Loyal Catholics have kept the faith DESPITE the skullduggery of these "churchmen!" I would have another name for them - but I am writing on a public forum...and out of respect for their office which they disgraced...

    Yes,I it is true, we can still meet Our Blessed Lord at the New Mass ( to Him be honour and praise forever!) - but it does not render the reverence and highest homage due only to Him, as this we find in the Traditional Latin Mass with all its glorious, extraordinarily beautiful prayers.

    1. Yes Claude, I totally agree. My NO church is EXACTLY like yours. Organ music is the best ever etc. but as you say there are " helpers" everywhere and no reverence whatsoever. Backs to the altar, chatting and even some chewing gum. No one fasts before Mass, all the Holy Days are ignored and the Homilies are useless. I know it's the same everywhere. BUT it's not the fault of the people because TLM was scrapped before I was born and the reverence at Mass has gone downhill fast ever since. I see your point I really do but I just feel so sad for the people who do not know any better. All these Ministers of the Eucharist are PROUD of their contribution at Mass because they don't know any better. They're there because the priest asked for them. It's what's done now isn't it? People like to have Mass in their own language because some people struggle with Latin even though we have the translation on the same page. I spend so much time at my NO Mass wishing and praying that people would just TRY to think about what's going on. If the Queen was present there'd be reverence and homage galore and yet poor Jesus is not given much attention at all. I'm agreeing with you definitely. The parishioners are not to blame though, it has just been a very steady decline in standards that the priests and Bishops have let go. Receiving Holy Communion in the hand instead of on the tongue was the start of the rot. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my comment.

  31. 7bf,

    It causes me to wonder why Traditional youth would want to go to an event like WYD anyway.

    As a witness for Catholic Tradition that these youths might otherwise not have occasion to counter.

    In this respect, Juventutem's presence is a good thing.

  32. "Whatever else has happened in Rio, they have been granted a stunning church in which to celebrate their liturgies, and it appears that Juventutem will have their most robust presence ever"

    I wish it were true, but that does not seem to be the case. In terms of Pontifical Masses (1962 Missal) there will be fewer this time around than in any of the three previous WYD's at which Juventutem was present.

  33. To JTS. I attend both liturgies and am very involved in my NO parish. It took me many years, many books, many misadventures … in a parish where the NO mass is so well said that it could be considered the model to follow. And so many self nominated « extraordinary ministers » of all kinds! But the same crowd in the past 20 years, just getting older … No kids …. Where are vocations, male and female? Don’t need them, everybody is too busy around the altar … volunteering … pretending … playing out without engagement, without true commitment … commitment that used to be called vocation. All those lay volunteers should be praying and crying for vocations on the lay side of the communion rail … but no, it’s much better to play priest. There is such a thing called roles and responsibilities; if those are not followed and ordained as per the Church rules, it’s just catastrophy. And this is why in my parish, where the NO is said with so much beauty, professional choir to die for, a multitude of volunteers around the altar, in a grand setting worthy of a museum, we are actually living out a great illusion. Most are cafeteria catholics as you describe them, therefore not in communion with the Church, there are no vocations (I could write a book just on that issue…), and absolutely no transmission and teaching of the faith other than « making everybody feel good about God Who saved us all …). Lastly, it’s not the NO that is asphyxiating the Church but the way it is rendered, even in the most exceptional way as in my parish because its beauty is out of touch, cut off from its root. And the root is Christ, not the congregation. So how do we love Christ, how do we show our love for Him in the liturgy? How many can truly say as Saint John ends Revelation : Yes, my Lord, come back! Claude

    1. My reply to you published ABOVE by accident on my part.

  34. Bergoglio enjoys himself and why not. There're plenty dupes willing to donate.

  35. This comment has been removed by the author.

  36. I might add that, for the first time since Juventutem got involved in 2005 with WYD, there will be a day in the schedule when NO Traditional Latin Mass will be available for the Juventutem pilgrims because their priests will be off concelebrating at the Novus Ordo papal Mass.

    I am not criticizing or condemning this development; I am merely pointing out that we can't speak of a "most robust presence ever" of Juventutem.

  37. Barbara, thanks for your reply to my comment. The NO Mass does NOT render the highest reverence and homage due to Our Lord, as you say. You are completely right. You can appreciate though, that now after all these years of people having Mass in their own language, they might be VERY reluctant to have LATIN imposed on them. Most people are totally oblivious to the fact that they are attending a Mass that is disrespectful to Jesus. You might say, " Why does Father allow so many Ministers of the Eucharist?" " Why are people chatting in church?" and " Why is everyone coming back from Communion chewing the precious Host like a camel grazing?" The answer is because they do not know any different. If Father lets it happen it must be ok. " Why is Father not saying anything, reminding people they are in the presence of God, giving small reminders before the Homily and in the newsletter?" Well, he wasn't trained properly for one thing. He doesn't want to upset anyone. There are tales of ' Fire and Brimstone Priests' and he doesn't want to come across like that. Which Catholics are attending Mass? How many Catholics actually keep the Sabbath Day Holy? Hardly any at all. Father doesn't want to drive away the few he's got. Are the Homilies at the TLM informative, and designed to give the people some REAL religious instruction? Yes! That's because the TLM priest knows those people won't give up attending no matter how much Fire and Brimstone is in the Homily. We MUST pray for TLM to be offered in EVERY church. It's the only way to fix things. Having separate parishes just for TLM people is like leaving behind the lost sheep. No ordinary person is going to attend unless it is offered at home. You know the reason why.........people don't know it's still going. If they find out about it then they're too nervous to give it a try. If they get the courage to try it they often get lost because the format is so different and it might put them off attending again. IF it's offered at their own parish it NORMALISES it. People they actually know will be going so they are more likely to try again. People are reluctant to try something new. I know it's ancient but it's new to the poor sheep who have been deprived for all these years. One last say you are reading how the Council's Consilium massacred Holy Mass.........I hope the source is reliable. Also I agree the Latin translations for the NO Mass have been terrible but improved at least a little recently.

  38. This was all prophesied in the Scriptures - Book of Revelations and the 3rd Secret of Fatima, the subversion of the Catholic chruch that is why Our Blessed Mother said to the 3 children in Fatima that it is always important to pray the rosary (15 decades) to defeat and conquer all the heresies that is going on in the Catholic Church, whether it is a circus novus ordo mass, false ecumenism or bad execution of priests on the sacraments (no catholic intention) or this woodstock thing, because the rosary (15 decades) is our last line of offense and defense against the enemy that has subverted and infiltrated the church in the 1960's i.e. French revolution in the church via Freemasonry, Modernism, communism. GOD BLESS TO ALL!!! KEEP ON FIGHTIN!!!

  39. Has anyone noticed that that pic of Madrid is actually Sydney, Australia?

  40. Very few people, so including in Francis Rome, are aware that Latin is highly recommended by ... Rome (!) in official neo-liturgical documents when the Mass is celebrated for large international groups of faithful i.e. exactly the case for W.Y.D.

    And I'm talking about Ordinary Form of Mass : the recommendation stresses that the Kyriale at least can be used instead of a myriad of languages that only a restricted group will understand each time. It is just common sense by the way but common sense is also lacking from time to time in Roman offices.

    That being said, we all know that pope Francis has never been fond of Latin so it's not a big surprise ; and it is true for Latin American bishops in general and Brazilian in particular ; they have their say in the organization of W.Y.D. so once again no big surprise.

  41. I would like to know Pope Francis official postion on the implementation of the Apostolic Constitution Veterum Sapientia. Or does he, as Pope pick and choose and condemn (oh, but not openly) the lay Faithful for doing the same. Humane Vitae anyone?

  42. There is a place on earth, not far from this years WYD, that has never witnessed the NO Mass. The archbishop returned from VII as if nothing happened and continued on with the TLM.

    Read about it here.


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