Rorate Caeli

Summorum advances in Moscow and San Francisco,
under the banner of the Immaculate Conception

1. From the capital of the largest nation on Earth, news of an every-Sunday TLM:

As of January 1, 2012 a weekly diocesan traditional Latin mass is available at the  Immaculate Conception Cathedral in Moscow, Russia. The previously bi-monthly Traditional Mass will now be a Sunday Mass - every Sunday, at 5 PM, in the lower Chapel of the Cathedral.



2. In the city of Saint Francis in California, the Sunday TLM will now be in a stable location:

In the Archdiocese of San Francisco, each Sunday of the month, the traditional Mass would be at a different parish. On the first Sundays, it would be at Mater Dolorosa, in South San Francisco, second Sundays it would be at St. Finn Barr in San Francisco, third Sundays at Holy Name, also in San Francisco, and fourth Sundays at St. Catherine's in San Mateo. From Sunday, January 8, onward, the Mass will be said each Sunday without exception or change at Immaculate Conception Chapel in San Francisco. The changing Masses of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Sundays are now cancelled, but the one on the 4th Sunday at Saint Catherine's, as far as I know, will continue. Also, the Archdiocese also officially published Fr. William Young's private Mass, said daily (usually not on Wed.) at 9:30 AM at Most Holy Redeemer in San Francisco.

Sources: UV Russia and readers.

(Rorate first announced Fr. Young's daily TLM in Most Holy Redeemer more than two years ago.)

Keep sending us news from your TLM community: every little advance shows that Summorum works.

64 comments:

Lindi said...

God bless you all.

Jerry said...

Thank God for slow advances - Summorum will not be successful, IMHO, until one can proceed daily to the nearest church and hear Mass. The Church will have turned Catholic again.
Jerry

James C. said...

Most Holy Redeemer in the Castro, where the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence have their home, has a daily TLM? Wow.

John (Ad Orientem) said...

Following up on James C's comment I am stunned that MHR is hosting the TLM in San Francisco. That parish makes the Episcopal Church look moderately conservative. It is in no way an exaggeration to call that a radical "gay" parish. Seriously, if the world was flat they would be in danger of falling off the leftward edge.

ServusImmaculatae said...

Deo Gratias!

"But in the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph"....

I am not Spartacus said...

This is great news. I do not know of anyone who has ever gone to San Francisco and not fallen in love with the city and its geographical location.

There is astonishing natural beauty all over the Bay Area and up and down the coast in each direction but the collapse of Catholicism there has led to the sort of repulsive neo-paganism of the people that we all deplore.

To think that the heart of our Faith will finally be restored there is glorious news for Epiphany Sunday and, please God, it will lead to a restoration of Catholicism which is the sole heart that can lift the people up out of paganism

Mike said...

Amen, Deo Gratias! Thanks for the news.

Ted Maysfield said...

Let us give thanks to God for Pope Benedict XVI. Remember him in our prayers and think more of him with love and gratitude than hatred and recrimination.

I don’t know enough to comment about the impact of the Moscow church, but in San Francisco this is a breakthrough with significant potential for good.

Thank you, Holy Father!

bernadette said...

It is astonishing and beautiful to hear of the Latin Mass not only in San Francisco, but in Moscow...I believe that the message of Fatima has been fulfilled and is no longer relevant for our times...many SSPX'ers will be stymied...

Sphendonetes said...

As a San Francisco resident, I can say that this is only somewhat encouraging. The church which will have the regular TLM is not one of the major churches and is somewhat on the outskirts of the City. The Abp. of the SF has generally not been favorable to the TLM. As long as the TLM is relegated to the backwaters and is not in any centrally located major church, its permission is just a minor concession on the part of modernist bishops. As for MHR, yes, it is a gay apostate church, but for whatever reason that is where Fr. Young lives out his semi-retirement. Hence it is most convenient for him. Why he ended up there I have no idea. Incidentally, his sermons are excellent.

New Catholic said...

Yes, our source had the following comment:

"Though Most Holy Redeemer is a notorious --- parish, in the infamous Castro district, Fr. Young is a 100% traditional Catholic priest. He is even featured in the SSPX publication 'Priest, where is thy Mass?' "

New Catholic said...

Please, let us avoid here or in any other thread the use of the three-letter ancient French-originated English word, --y, appropriated by a political-ideological movement in favor of the perversion of social mores in the last third of the 20th century. Unless it is being used exclusively in its original sense, obviously.

Thanks,

NC

Mike O. said...

In regard to the "lefty" parish in SF, I am very pleased to hear they have a solid priest.

God loves the sinner, hates the sin.

I need to pound this into my own brain and heart, at times, for it is true.

Anonymous said...

These are very joyful tidings.

RR

Jerry said...

Bernadette,

Joyful tidings indeed.

Though I appreciate your opinion I feel compelled to share mine with you.

One day the FSSPX will no longer be needed, they are needed now and for some time to come. The emergency exists, the crisis is severe, it is everywhere.

IMHO, the Fatima message has not been fulfilled and more fallout within and with out the Church is still to come.

Happy Feast of the Holy Family.

Jerry

Lopes said...

'...I believe that the message of Fatima has been fulfilled and is no longer relevant for our times...'

Is this a joke?? One TLM in Moscow equals the conversion of the entire nation??

Our Lady of Fatima is not 'relevant' anymore...wow.

Jonvilas said...

If one would know, what does the lower chapel of the Moscow Catholic Cathedral means... Of course, it is an improvement in terms of frequency are good news, however, the chapel mentioned in the message is not the one, that the Missa Perennis deserves. Moreover, it is situated just near the room, where neo-cathecumens use to have their meetings. Well, at least we can say the splendid phrase "brick by brick"

bernadette said...

The restoration in Russia has been under way for sometime..no, the message of Fatima is no longer relevant for our times...I believe the Church has long ago fulfilled Our Lady's request...and besides, the sspx focus on private revelation is over done...listen, I was in the cult for 6-7 years, I don't speak without knowledge or experience. And the only way the sspx can help the church is within...otherwise, they are nothing but a schismatic sect, like so many others.

Tradical said...

Hi Bernadette,

" ...many SSPX'ers will be stymied..."

One Mass does not a conversion make.

The Pope himself has said that we are seeing the message of Fatima unfold - ie. it ain't over by a long shot.

authoressaurus said...

Read the Wikipedia article on the history and reclamation of the Catholic Cathedral in Moscow. It highlights the true scale of this development. I think very few people in the west are aware of the history of that church building, what it went through, and how recently it came back into possession and use by Holy Church. The return of the traditional mass is truly the capstone of its journey through the depths of Socialism's perverted abuses, and the fact that it stands and functions glorious today may be taken as a metaphor, in my HUMBLE opinion, for the durability and future of our Faith and our Church. God bless its parishioners. I have always wanted to go to Moscow but have never really had a clear cut reason. Now I want to go to Holy Mass there, whether it's in the Cathedral broom-closet, crypt-chapel, or on the high altar. Laus Deo!

Long-Skirts said...

bernadette said...

"...the message of Fatima is no longer relevant for our times... the sspx...are nothing but a schismatic sect....I believe the Church has long ago fulfilled Our Lady's request"

Oh, no my dear...it ain't over til Our Lady Sings!!

FATIMA

We battle for Mass
Daily it’s said.
We battle for schools
Where God is not dead.

We battle for books
Published and read.
We battle for peace
Retreats are priest led.

We battle to shield
Motherhoods’ plight
To let her nurse child
At home day and night.

We battle for men
Who quietly fight
Support them in prayer
To lead us to right.

We battle for truth
Professed in the Creed
Say “NO” to the wolves
Who twist it indeed.

We battle for grace
We drink it like mead
It quenches our thirst
Refreshed so to heed…

All that is said
By wolves wearing rings
Corrupting the facts
With traditional slings.

But triumph is coming
Heart Immaculate brings
‘Cause the war isn’t over…
Till FATIMA sings!!

Jerry said...

Bernadette,
I do respect your opinion. I too speak from experience.

Here is my story, I left the FSSP for the FSSPX over two years ago and have no regrets.

Sure there are problems in the FSSPX, just like the FSSP has their own set of problems. I don't see the FSSPX as a cult. I like worshiping there far better.

The message of Fatima has not been fulfilled in my opinion....a long ways to go yet.

Jerry

bernadette said...

Our Lord works in mysterious ways. Again, the Consecration of Russia was done, we see the fruits. Tradical, it is not one mass, it is a weekly mass at the Cathedral in Moscow and elsewhere...the restoration has begun, and Russia leads the way...do not write dishonestly.

Longskirts....

We stand at the foot of the Holy Cross,

With St. John and Our Mother...despite our great loss.

Those who abandon Our Lord in His plight,

No different today are those who refuse to stay and fight...

They take their traditions, and abandon the Church...

They act as pope, and Christ's Church they besmirch...

They glory in their pride, they disobey,

We cannot accept the changes, they say...

But to stand at the foot of the Holy Cross, is the same as to stand with Christ and His Church.

As His precious blood pours out from His wounds, there should we remain..we do not protest, but suffer the same.

bernadette said...

Thank you Jerry...and I respect your opinion. My experience has been burdensome and sorrowful and I see the sspx ignores and encourages family strife, even when family members alienate themselves from other family members, they remain silent...I will hold to my opinion, they create a cult-mentality in their faithful, they may not have the designs to do so, but they do so all the same...this comes when a sect creates it's own parallel church and separates from Rome and the Holy Father.

Long-Skirts said...

Bernadette said:

"But to stand at the foot of the Holy Cross, is the same as to stand with Christ and His Church."

There is the contemplative life, a special vocation and the Church Militant, Bernadette. Some of us do stand with St. John and the Blessed Mother daily at the foot of Our Lord's cross as they did while the first Pope and Christ's first Bishops ran away. There are also those Priests who, no matter what MUST "fight the good fight" to preserve the True Faith and "feed My sheep."

Bernadette also said:

"this comes when a sect creates it's own parallel church and separates from Rome and the Holy Father."

also:

"...do not write dishonestly."

I'm sorry for your family problems but who is writing dishonestly by saying the SSPX "creates it's own parallel church"...that is just your opinion but doesn't mean it's truth.


IN THE YEAR
TWO THOUSAND FIVE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiDjuUTF8_A

In the year of Our Lord -
In the year two thousand five -
Two thousand pilgrims showed
The True Faith is alive.

Sacred music loud and blaring
As a godless rival good -
But on the holy Fatima ground
The planet's pilgrims stood.

Louder and louder
Mother's Church own -
Played pretty polyphony
So pilgrims might moan.

They tried and tried
To disorient -
But our penanced pilgrims
Prayed with all bent.

And yes it was...psychological -
No physical martyrdom -
But the wearing down of the psyche's soul
But these psyches' souls were plum.

Because this pilgrims’ procession
From the Holy Mass had come -
With their hearts and souls keeping the beat
Of the Church's Militant drum.

And when that drum is beating
With Catholic soul and heart
There never will be a competing -
When Triumphant takes her part.

For Church Triumphant's made of souls
Who fought the fight and won...
And to godless rival goods they say,
"We've only just begun!"

bernadette said...

Longskirts wrote:
I'm sorry for your family problems but who is writing dishonestly by saying the SSPX "creates it's own parallel church"...that is just your opinion but doesn't mean it's truth.


Thank you for your concern...I speak the truth. The SSPX has created a parallel church...it is not my opinion, it is fact. They sit on the fence while speaking out of both sides of the mouth, they are hypocrites, they may not encourage, but they sit silently by while rifts occur in families divided...that is not Catholic, and I don't believe Christ would of wanted it that way. Not every sspx'er experiences the same thing...that does not mean the cult mentality and cult like behavior does not exist...it does.

Some will not relish seeing their perfect "Catholic" world disturbed, they love the 'traditional Catholic' world that is of their own construct...and not in union with the Church, and so they do not allow the scandals to register in their minds, they deny, they ignore, they bury their heads...I am sorry for those who will not see.

I am working on more 'poetry'...my first attempt was strictly ad lib...

bernadette said...

Hello Tradical,

I am saying to you, the consecration has been done, otherwise we would not be seeing this restoration of the faith in Russia...and yes, of course then, the message is unfolding...and the pope has affirmed that fact, by his very words which you have mentioned to us.

Let us not confuse the Third Secret, which many say has not been revealed, or the Consecration of Russia, which many say has not been done, with the truth...and the pope has said it has been done, and the results now are unfolding...or are some of you here saying that the restoration of the Latin Mass weekly in Moscow is not a result of the Consecration? If so...then what is it?

bernadette said...

No, Lopes...I am not an Orthodox NO person...I am a Roman Catholic that spent 6-7 years in the SSPX, and I will attest that the SSPX is a cult.

And by the way...it is not incumbent upon ANY Catholic to believe in private revelation...the sspx however, puts Fatima, a private revelation, in first place...it is a distraction from our Holy faith, and a means of control.

Gravitas said...

Bernadette, show me anywhere a pope said the words "i consecrate Russia to the Sacred Heart of Jesus" and I'll give you $1 million. Until then, give it a rest. A couple TLMs does not mean Russia is converted. Far from it.

Lopes said...

Bernadette,

You're right, you do not have to believe in a private revelation. It is a bit confusion though for you to then say the consecration has taken place and that the conversion is under way.

I have been only once to a SSPX chapel but if they are a cult, what would you call the NO clergy and parishes?

Long-Skirts said...

Bernadette said:

"...I am sorry for those who will not see."

I am too. May God have mercy on them.

bernadette said...

For Gravitas (Our Lady requested the consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart, not to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, by the by):

In order that Our and your prayers be more readily answered, and to give you an especial attestation of Our particular affection, therefore, just as not many years ago We consecrated the entire world to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin Mother of God, in a most special way, so now We dedicate and consecrate all the peoples of Russia to that same Immaculate Heart, in confident assurance that through the most powerful protection of the Virgin Mary there may, at the earliest moment, be happily realized the hopes and desires which We, together with you and with all those of upright intention, have for the attainment of true peace, of fraternal concord, and of rightful liberty for all: in the first place for the Church, so that through the mediation of the prayer which We raise to heaven in union with you and with all Christian peoples, the saving Kingdom of Christ, which is "a Kingdom of truth and of life, a Kingdom of sanctity and of grace, a Kingdom of justice, of love, and of peace,"[3] may triumph and be firmly established in every part of the world.
http://www.rosarychurch.net/mary/pius12_cons_russia.html

Joe Bell said...

Just for those interested. In Moscow for a few years now is located Fr Alexander Kryssov. His chapel is called St Pius V
129323, Moscow, Proezd, Rusanova, 27-1-86
tel +7-915-408-03-43
He was ordained by Bp Mark Pivarunas a few years ago to serve in his native soil.

I would agree with many of the above commentators, Russia has not been conscerated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Let us pray that one day it is.

M. A> said...

"i consecrate Russia to the Sacred Heart of Jesus" and I'll give you $1 million."
_______________________

Please get it right. Our Lady requested that Russia be consecrated by name, in union with the world's bishops TO HER IMMACULATE HEART.

And, no, it has not been done because Russia is not becoming a Catholic nation - as Sr. Lucia said would happen - and the Holy Father is not promoting the First Saturday devotions, the TWO things our Lady requested.

Bernadette, if you are the same person who has commented here in the past, I see that the wind is shifting you to and fro. You seem to have done an about-face.

Please don't be offended when I say I will pray for you. This is not the time to fold.

Gravitas said...

That was just a mistype late at night.

Yes, it was to her immaculate heart, by the pope, by NAME, in union with all the world's bishops.

JPII did not do that. He didn't say Russia. This is like liberals telling us with have to see the right to privacy in the constitution, and that we have to see it applies to a woman's right to have an abortion, even though our eyes can't see it.

You can't see the consecration because it never took place.

Ecclesia Militans said...

The message of the Blessed Virgin Mary at Fatima has not yet been fulfilled.

How do we know it, aside from the obvious?
When it is fulfilled everything will be as the old French and Italian song says, which was the anthem of the Pontifical States:

Nous voulons Dieu, Vierge Marie / Noi vogliam Dio, Vergine Maria

Bless, O loving Mother
The cry of our faith
We want God as our Father
We want God as our King.


These are the main points in the stanzas:

We want God in our families, to rule in our hearts, in every school, in courts, workplaces, at weddings and at the bedside of our dying,
We want our children to learn the words and laws of the Wisdom of Jesus,
We want God in the consciences of those who govern,
We want the Church to teach the Truth,
We want to be the defenders of His Holy Law.
The iniquitous peoples have risen against Him, in their raging exceses they dare to defy God...

We want God as our Father
We want God as our King.

Here is the Italian short version, in a video about the 80th birthday of Pope Pius XI:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=r5KB4Kqg8U0

And the French short version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbK5LgjxsSM

Long live the Kingship of Jesus Christ!
Viva Cristo Rey!

bernadette said...

I'm not going to argue or persist here with my thoughts, I am after all trying to recover not fall back...all I have done is return to the Catholic Church, and when someone here can prove to me that the sspx is the Church, I'll listen...yes I've changed, M.A....and my experiences and what I have witnessed in the sspx helped to do it. They need jurisdiction..otherwise, they are nothing but a schismatic cult.

bernadette said...

Over 2 million Russians visit churches on Christmas:
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20120108/170664286.html

Cruise the Groove. said...

Bernadette,

Please provide authoritative references that cite that the Consecration of Russia was done by the Holy Father with all the worlds bishops on one specific day, per our Ladys request.

If the Consecration was done, it was done in absolute privacy from all laymen of the world since nowhere I have read that it was done per Marys request.

In 1984 Pope John Paul II consecrated the world with no mention of Russia and the worlds bishops were not involved.
Lucia said this consecration was accepted by heaven, but nowhere does she say that this was the Consecration of Russia.
[any consecration would be accepted by God, this does not mean that it was the Consecration asked for by Our Lady]

Cruise the Groove. said...

I looked on Holy Redeemers web page and it says nothing about Fr Youngs TLM:
http://www.mhr.org/

bernadette said...

Cruise the Groove...First, I believe the consecration was done by Pope Pius XII in 1952. I already provided a link above. You are welcome to believe what you want...but keep in mind, the Fatima business would of collapsed years ago if the consecration remains undone...Second, you provide me with authoritative references that cite without question that the consecration was NOT done...fair enough?

Cruise the Groove. said...

Bernadette:

In October of 1942, with World War II at its height, Pope Pius XII performed a consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. He made no mention of Russia, nor did any of the world’s bishops participate in the ceremony. The following spring, as the war continued, Our Lord told Sr. Lucia that world peace would not result from the Pope’s consecration, but the war would be shortened.

Gravitas said...

Bernadette:

"They need jurisdiction..otherwise, they are nothing but a schismatic cult."

So now you're saying you know more than the pope, Cardinal Castrillion, and numerous others speaking officially for the Vatican who have said the exact opposite of this.

So once SSPX, now complete leftist?

New Catholic said...

Friends,

Fatima, and the "litany" of consecrations, are not a matter of faith. I do not want Bernadette to feel in any way influenced to think one way or another. Her thoughts on the matter are perfectly fine, whatever they may be.

NC

bernadette said...

Thank you for that, New Catholic..I don't like to keep private revelations in the forefront of my faith...that is too overdone in the sspx, and I've moved on.

Gravitas...it is basic Catholic knowledge that all priests must have jurisdiction under a bishop and within a diocese..the sspx has never had that, perhaps they will have it soon, but as it stands they do not, anyone going there for confession is making an invalid confession.

Gravitas said...

Bernadette: "it is basic Catholic knowledge that all priests must have jurisdiction under a bishop and within a diocese..the sspx has never had that, perhaps they will have it soon, but as it stands they do not, anyone going there for confession is making an invalid confession."

Thanks for that basic lesson.

First, you said their schismatic, which the Vatican says they're not, and that it's an internal matter of the Church.

Second, you're saying their confessions are invalid, which they would claim they're not, do to the state of necessity. The Church will rule on that one day, along with marriages. For you to say for sure, with you vast theological background I'm sure, I find a bit silly.

bernadette said...

Gravitas...the sspx is still considered schismatic whether you care to admit it or not:

“Return to the Past” (or, literally, “a past that keeps returning”) is the name of the chapter that deals principally with the SSPX. The hard contradictions implicit in Benedict XVIth’s persistent desire to make peace with this schismatic group is apparently seen by Politi as a key to understanding Joseph Ratzinger’s inner torments.
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/homepage/documents/detail/articolo/recensione-book-review-resena-del-libro-11395//pag/1/

Cruise the Groove. said...

Bernadette,
Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos and Pope Benedict XVI both say that the FSSPX is not in a state of schism.
Also I have a letter from the PCED that states I can fulfill my holyday obligation at an SSPX Mass.

I have never heard of attending a schismatic Mass being permitted to fullfill a Catholic obligation

docknoils said...

Cruise the Groove:
The Pope said the SSPX has a "schismatic mentality." Interpret it as you like.
The letter you claim - if from Msgr. Perl - does not allow regular attendance at their Masses. Read it again! You can fulfill your obligation with the SSPX in the same way as at a Mass by an Eastern Orthodox - valid but illicit.

Cruise the Groove. said...

"The letter you claim - if from Msgr. Perl - does not allow regular attendance at their Masses. Read it again! You can fulfill your obligation with the SSPX in the same way as at a Mass by an Eastern Orthodox - valid but illicit."

Wrong.
One cannot fulfill the obligation at an Eastern Orthox liturgy since this is not a Catholic Mass.
The FSSPX offer a Catholic Mass.

My letter from Mons Perl says nothing about not attending an FSSPX Mass on a regular basis.
Rather he says the PCED does not encourage it, but it does fulfill the obligation.

Ecclesia Militans said...

The road is barren without Tradition, and it leads only to disaster, and finally into death.
If anything, the last 50 years have proved that.

Cardinal Siri: "If the Church were not divine, this Council would have buried it."
The reason why the Conciliar Church has not yet perished is because there are still parts of Catholicism in it.
But the Good Lord will get tired of waiting, He will chastize this sinful world and restore His Glory in the Catholic Church.

The official Church then will no longer be schismatic with its novel teachings. It will be in communion with all the ages of Catholic Tradition, with the Saints and Angels, with Heaven itself.

This is the Church that is now silently persecuted, driven from the parishes, convents and dioceses, this is the Church that will be openly persecuted in the future because it has remained True.

Bernadette,,

Do you see the crisis in the Church? Do not lie to yourself.
If you can see the depth of this crisis, which threatens the very survival of the Catholic Church, ask yourself, what will the Lord ask us when we come before Him?

Will He ask us to cite Canon Law to explain how the Society has or has not the supplied jurisdiction?
If you can see the crisis than you know the answer.
Or will he ask us more simply and importantly:
"Have you kept the Faith?"

May the Lord illuminate you and guide you to the path of His Most Holy Tradition, there where is the Church.

"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." Saint Athanasius, Bishop, Confessor and Doctor

bernadette said...

Ecclesia Militans:
If you knew me, you wouldn't ask me those things. Traditional Catholics, particularly the sspx'ers, believe they are the 'faithful remnant'...how sad...they believe everyone else is damned and they alone will be saved...don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about, I had believed that very same thing for my duration in the sspx...maybe you trads that think like little individual popes, might one day return to the church, whether the church is up to your standards or not. You talk as though the gates of Hell CAN and WILL prevail.

Long-Skirts said...

Bernadette said:

"the sspx'ers, believe they are the 'faithful remnant'...how sad...they believe everyone else is damned and they alone will be saved...don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about, I had believed that very same thing for my duration in the sspx..."

...well shame on you Bernadette. My experience these 20 years assisting at the Society of St. Pius X Masses have been that most of us are large, poor families regaining our inheritance and help to live good holy Catholic lives.

POOR
SOULS

The "Field of Dreams"
Is the poors
Who else takes chances
At weak-linked lures?

The lure to bite
Reel in what's true
The rich can't see
The whole lake view.

The poor have nothing
They can lose
Don't worry 'bout
Financial news.

The poor don't have
Such luxury -
Where they can rest
From misery.

They must take hold
And seize the field
"For the good of the whole"
While rich yaw-yield.

Fed rich are slowed
By money's weight
The hungry poor
Knows the hour's late.

So the hungry soul
Sweats hard at work
Fed rich sit back
In the coolness lurk.

And when all's built
By the poor souls dumb
And all seems safe
Smart rich will come.

With much fanfare
Give thanks in speeches
Though regarding the poor
And their babes as leeches

Forgetting the hungry
Poor fit through
The eye of the needle
Two by two.

And unless fed rich
Lose some of their weight...
The eye of the needle
Will seal their fate.

bernadette said...

Yes longskirts, I'm aware that the sspx is filled with large poor families...the weak minded and those who don't want to accept the modern world they live in...the time in place and history that God determined for them, mind you...no, shame on you for trying to shame those who remain steadfast at the foot of the cross through thick or thin...who can accept God's will and remain Roman Catholic and still united to His Church.

Ecclesia Militans said...

It all comes down to Faith.

As Bartholomew insightfully commented:
"I fear that this discussion is revealing that many of us are moving toward the embrace of vastly divergent notions of the Faith: one built on respect for the concept of tradition which the Church has always revered vs. sheer legal positivism."

Just because a pope says so, it does not mean that it is true. And just because you disobey the Pope, it does not mean that you are not Catholic.

You don't need to find explanations to make the heterodox doctrines and practices of the modernists acceptable. Catholicism is not Communism. You don't have to shut down your brain and take in the ideology.

Just think. The modern world, with its policy of "education", has untaught people how to think. Logic is a great fruit of a Thomistic education. Just think.

It all comes down to Faith.

Is the faith currently taught in most seminaries and preached by most of the hierachy, including the popes - is it the same Faith as 50, 100, 200 years ago?

Would a Catholic from that time reckognize this faith - I am not talking about clothes or titles, but Faith - would he reckognize this faith as his faith? Would he reckognize is as Catholic?

If not, we have a problem. It means that this modern faith is somehow schismatic, since it refuses to be in communion with the Eternal Church of the Ages, which is now the Church Triumphant - all the saints, holy bishops, doctors, virgins et al. who hold that Faith.

Then, if that Catholic from long or not-so-long ago would look for his Faith, where we he found it? Where would he point his finger and say - this is the Catholic Faith, where I was born and in which I want to die, the Faith of my fathers. Would he point to modernist Rome and its 'legal positivist' ("if it's legal, its alright") novelties? Or would he point to Tradition, whether it be FSSPX, FSSP, ICK etc.?

The question everyone must ask oneself is whether I love God more than man.

And whether I love Faith more than obedience.

God always leads to salvation, man often leads to perdition.

Faith always leads to the path of salvation, obedience sometimes leads to the path of perdition.

"Alas, Most Holy Father! At times obedience to you leads to eternal damnation."
(Saint Catherine of Sienna, Letter to Pope Gregory IX, 1376)

Long-Skirts said...

Bernadette said:

"no, shame on you for trying to shame those who remain steadfast at the foot of the cross through thick or thin..."

That's exactly what I'm doing along with many, MANY "weak minded" souls, remaining steadfast with Our Blessed Mother and one of the first Priests, St. John at the foot of Our Lord's cross. Neither the Blessed Mother or St. John again, one of the first Priests would run after the other cowardly priests, bishops and yes, even our first Pope. They remained steadfast and prayed until the Apostles and St. Peter came back.

Bernadette also said:

"...and those who don't want to accept the modern world they live in...the time in place and history that God determined for them, mind you"

I am in the modern world but not OF it and, yes, this time and place God has determined for me to be in is glorious in the spiritual sense as we are given the oportunity to truly practice the WHOLE FAITH which the world despises and NEVER back down for we are completely and totally ROMAN CATHOLIC though our own lie about us and others just hate...but we are "weak, faithful to Holy Mother Church and very, very fertile!"

BLACK
HOLES

Disco-decayed
They cancelled all color
Sanctuaries stripped
First Communions were duller.

No crinoline whites
Pale hues they stressed
“Only pearled-Pharisees
Are ever so dressed.”

Roses, carnations,
Flowers, all manners
Left just to wither
‘Gainst assertives’ beige banners.

Pillars of marble
Corinthian styles
They decided to paint
Like pink bathroom tiles.

Cassocks of red
Habits blue, white,
Robes of distinction
Extinct over night.

Missals with pages
Embossed in gloss-gold
Latin in tint
English-black often bold.

Even the ribbons
To mark scriptural prayers
Were of green, yellow, silvers
So to keep us from errors.

The soft votive flames
The red opaque glass
Gave an aura of stillness
Like time could not pass.

Yet time it passed,
Vividness drained
And populations with out color
Cannot be sustained.

So those underground
With red blood in blue veins
Birthed knowledge, the arts
Great virtues they gained.

They did not decay-
God’s colors kept green
For the day up above
Once again to be seen.

Except for those beige
Banner-like-blind…
Gray fertility fades
In their black open minds.

Jordanes551 said...

"Alas, Most Holy Father! At times obedience to you leads to eternal damnation." (Saint Catherine of Sienna, Letter to Pope Gregory IX, 1376)

That alleged quote of St. Catherine is entirely bogus. It is not to be found anywhere in any of her letters to Pope Gregory IX, nor in any of her letters at all, and it doesn't sound anything at all like something she would have written. For St. Catherine, obedience to the Vicar of Christ was paramount, and she would have rejected out of hand any attempt to justify disobedience to the Pope. For example, this is what she wrote to Brother Antonio of Nizza:

"For divine obedience never prevents us from obedience to the Holy Father: nay, the more perfect the one, the more perfect is the other. And we ought always to be subject to his commands and obedient unto death. However indiscreet obedience to him might seem, and however it should deprive us of mental peace and consolation, we ought to obey; and I consider that to do the opposite is a great imperfection, and deceit of the devil."

Those who would like to read what St. Catherine REALLY wrote to Pope Gregory IX and others can go here:

http://www.domcentral.org/trad/cathletters.htm

bernadette said...

YOU have decided that only you and your traditional Catholic cult are practicing the whole faith longskirts, not the Holy Father, not the Church, not the rest of the 1.7 billion Catholics on the face of the earth.

The Catholic church did NOT begin with the Council of Trent...not everyone is educated on the Catholic faith during the Middle Ages...and before...it can be eye-opening.

Never, ever in history has a society reverted...reverted back centuries...we live in the modern/post modern era and we have no where else to go but forward...as a Catholic I believe the church is guided by the Holy Ghost...just because there was no media or internet in the "olden days" does not mean the times were not considered horrible and sinful by good Catholics then...who was it that said that every age believes they are living in the "END TIMES"?

Long-Skirts said...

bernadette said...

"YOU have decided that only you and your traditional Catholic cult are practicing the whole faith longskirts."

Oh, Bernadette I have never said any such thing and now it's MY traditional Catholic cult?

I am a baptized Catholic and a sinner and in the immortal words of Oscar Wilde, "A violent Papist!"

"The Catholic church did NOT begin with the Council of Trent..."

No, it was started by Our Lord at the Last Supper on Holy Thursday.

I will pray for you as I leave you with some advice in Latin my Irish born Catholic grandmother, Marguerite Malarkey handed down to my Catholic mother, Mary McMichael and I have handed down to our 10
shamrocks...

"Semper ubi sub ubi." Amen.

bernadette said...

Bells and incense,
fine vestments trimmed
in gold, candles and
cassocks remind us of old.

A drastic turn the church
did make, and away with
traditions, old past
to forsake.

Many revolted,
they do to this day,
true courage was in
the hearts of those who
did stay.

It is harder to suffer,
than to create a division,
and a parallel church of
one's own envision!

Jordanes551 said...

Bernadette, please throttle your rhetoric down a bit. It is one thing to criticise the SSPX for its resistance to the post-Vatican II Magisterium and hierarchy, but quite another to accuse it of being a "cult."

bernadette said...

By the way...thank you for the prayers, Long-Skirts...everyone can use prayers.

bernadette said...

Jordanes...thank you very much for the link to the letters of St. Catherine of Siena, my confirmation Saint.

Ecclesia Militans said...

Indeed, I cannot find the source of that quote, although the words "Alas, Most Holy Father" were often used by Saint Catherine in the letters.

I once read the quote on Traditio, I remembered it and therefore chose to use it. Perhaps they should be asked whether they falsified it or not.

Nevertheless, the assertion stands.
We must ask ourselves whether we love the Faith more than obedience.
As JMJ Ora Pro Nobis recently said, Faith is an absolute virtue and obedience is a relative virtue, meaning that obedience can be right or wrong depending on the person or the act to which we are being obedient.

When our superior (whoever he is) orders us to do something against the Faith, we are obligated to disobey.

It is of an indisputable logic.
For God wants good, and so wants us to obey those He has placed in positions of authority to govern His flock, so that, by obeying them we obey God Himself. But when they order something against the Faith they commit an evil act, contrary to the will of God.
In that case we must not obey because, instead of doing good, if we obey them we take part in their evil act by carrying it through, and we disobey God.
For it is never permissible to do evil so that a good could come of it.

The result of this false obedience has been disastrous for many or, as Mons. Lefebvre put it - it has led them "from obedience to apostasy".

Here is a similar quote from the Acts with a far greater authority than that attributed to St. Catherine:

"And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them, saying: Commanding we commanded you, that you should not teach in this name; and behold, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and you have a mind to bring the blood of this man upon us. But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." (Acts 5:27-29)