Rorate Caeli

Celebrating 50 years of a very successful endeavor

Whose boat?
From the Catholic Herald:

Archbishop of Canterbury and Orthodox patriarch to join Vatican II celebration

The Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople and the Archbishop of Canterbury will join Pope Benedict XVI’s celebration of the 50th anniversary of the opening of the Second Vatican Council, it was announced today.

Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople and Dr Rowan Williams will attend the Mass that Pope Benedict will celebrate at the Vatican to mark the anniversary of the opening of the council on October 11, 1962, Vatican officials said.

Representatives from the Orthodox Church and Anglican Communion were observers at the 1962-65 council, which officially embraced and promoted Catholic involvement in the ecumenical movement.

40 comments:

  1. Sigfrid10:13 PM

    Usquequo Domine?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Was such a good success parishes are closing left and right in the US! =-D

    ReplyDelete
  3. OneMoreStigmata11:01 PM

    Celebrating 50 years of a very successful endeavor - would that be the destruction of the one true church & the scattering of the flock? If so no wonder they are inviting heretics & schismatics to the celebration maybe they will get all the rest of the enemies of the church to attend the celebration (and smuggle "Assisi" right into St. Peters)...

    ReplyDelete
  4. Every time I see these celebrations of Vat 2
    The line
    The King has no clothes comes to mind.

    I just don`t understand what they are celebrating.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If Bartholomew of Constantinople meets the Pope it shows that he is an evil "ecumenist". If the Patriarch of Moscow refuses to meet the Pope it shows that he is an evil, stubborn and hard-headed man. The artificial rage of not a few Catholics and Orthodox over these meetings is getting tiresome. It is not as if they will be there to receive communion or to concelebrate.

    ReplyDelete
  6. William2:09 AM

    Will the "Archbishop" of Canterbury be permitted to present himself to the world as a legitimate Archbishop?

    ReplyDelete
  7. Matthew Rose2:20 AM

    I thought they had some goal of "Christian unity"? Did they not then fail even their own anti-Catholic program by still existing as Catholics, "Orthodox," and Anglicans?

    Luigi, that is garbage. Traditionalists are smart enough to see the difference between meeting with a heretic to try to convert him, and at least tacitly allowing him to continue in his heresies.

    As for your last sentence, what do you have to say about the Vatican allowing Rowan Williams to simulate the Holy Sacrifice on a consecrated altar at St. Sabina Church, or Br. Roger of Taize receiving Holy Communion? Do not act like it would be the first time.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Prof. Basto2:31 AM

    Vatican II deserves damnatio memoriae.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Gratias5:12 AM

    It is interesting that the Archbishop of Canterbury is attending. They lost some faithful to our Church because of their extreme left-wing ideology.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hermianensis5:23 AM

    Dear Prof.Basto,

    In a similar way that another Ecumenical Council which anathematized the person of someone who was considered an orthodox teacher during his lifetime and died in the peace of the Church (something hitherto unthinkable), deserves it?

    ReplyDelete
  11. Luigi said, "It is not as if they will be there to receive Communion or to concelebrate."

    Well, Luigi, it is the invite of the year to attend and to be seen attending. :|

    ReplyDelete
  12. J.G. Ratkaj9:46 AM

    It is laudable that high ranking hierarchs of the oriental churches, especially greeks and russians will not take part in this ecumenical turmoils.

    ReplyDelete
  13. GQ Rep10:07 AM

    Vatican II has been very sucessful, if the aim was/has been to turn us into the same as Protestants!

    Considering this initiative of Benedict XVI to celebrate Vatican II with a "Year of Faith", if it wasn't so naive and pathetic it would be laughable the people who think Benedict XVI will celebrate a Pontifical High Mass in the Tridentine Rite on November 3rd at the Vatican.

    Dream on!!

    ReplyDelete
  14. Think me crazy, but Vatican II did a wonderful thing: it preserved the Traditional Latin Mass, which is, of course, the greatest prayer on earth!

    Let me explain, very briefly, before VII the mass was already under severe attack (especially in France, and in particular at St. Severin in Paris).

    Vatican II taught us, ironically, how to love the most beautiful prayer this side of heaven anew--because by trying to appease the world, over God, it brought Traditionalists closer to God!

    Erasamus said an evil (and I don't mean to say VII was an evil, this is just an analogy) doesn't happen with a greater good, given God's gift of free will.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Bernonensis12:39 PM

    Blow the trumpet, proclaim the jubilee to the people of Babel.

    ReplyDelete
  16. I don't think its the orthodox that narks me! Its the fake archbishop and increasingly pathetic C of E. Who are we kidding!

    ReplyDelete
  17. NIANTIC1:08 PM

    Relax, everybody. Football season is in full swing! (I am speaking to my US brethren). Pax Christi.

    ReplyDelete
  18. "Knight of Malta said...
    Think me crazy, but Vatican II did a wonderful thing: it preserved the Traditional Latin Mass, which is, of course, the greatest prayer on earth!"

    Knight,
    That is like saying 9/11 was a good thing because it brought many people to their senses, for a while.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Andrew2:17 PM

    Im actually surprised at how quiet the 50th anniversary of Vatican II has been. Sure, there have been a few celebrations and articles but all in all its been very low key. Why? Because I think everyone knows the jury is still out on Vatican II and that its hard to be enthusiastic about what has taken place in the Church since the close of the Council.

    PS: As a former Anglican I can also say Vatican II was a watershed moment for the Anglican Communion as well. The Anglican Communion adopted much of he half-baked liberal ideas coming out of the post-Vatican II Catholic Church. Without a Magistarium to help right things they were destroyed by these things.

    ReplyDelete
  20. I'm reminded here of the story of Dr. Taylor Marshall -- a former Anglican clergyman who became Catholic only to find a liturgy that appeared somehow less Catholic than the Anglican liturgy he left behind! Fortunately Dr. Marshall soon found the True Mass through the apostolate of the Fraternity of St. Peter.

    http://fssp.com/press/2010/10/mater-dei-a-new-parish-church/

    I would be interested to know if Dr. Marshall sees the "new ecumenism" as playing any role in his conversion.

    ReplyDelete
  21. THE POPE

    The Pope
    Was the Pope
    In cope
    Ya dope

    But never
    Was there
    Such a Pope
    To cope

    I hope
    The Pope
    Didn’t have
    To grope

    When he
    Finally came
    To his
    End!

    The Pope
    Was the Pope
    Oh yeah
    Not nope

    But never
    Was there
    Such a Pope
    Oh nope

    No trope
    Of hope
    He made
    Me mope

    Was
    Real
    And not
    Pretend!

    The Pope
    Was the Pope
    Not soap
    On-a-rope

    But never
    Was there
    Such a Pope
    To lope

    And schuss
    On down
    The slip'ry
    Slope

    But
    Real
    I must
    Contend!

    The Pope
    Threw a rope
    Round
    Cantelope?

    Oh nope
    The Pope
    Ate
    Antelope?

    I cannot
    Cope
    With so much
    Dope...

    Just pray
    For our
    Pope
    My friend!

    ReplyDelete
  22. Wiseguy3:29 PM

    Andrew,

    Jury is still out on Second Vatican? I don't think so; the jury came back for me a long time ago. I'm just waiting for an ecclesial hangman to show up, so I can start peeling an apple.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Cluny4:04 PM

    >> OneMoreStigmata said...
    Celebrating 50 years of a very successful endeavor - would that be the destruction of the one true church & the scattering of the flock? <<

    Why did you say this, OneMoreStigmata?

    The last time I looked, the Catholic Church is still here, and the flock gathered around the Successor of St. Peter.

    ReplyDelete
  24. David -

    I know Taylor, we go to the same FSSP parish. We are very blessed at that parish, from what I understand it is the "largest" FSSP parish in the western hemisphere, possibly the world, in terms of attendance. Over a thousand souls on any Sunday, sometimes much more. They had to add a third priest!

    I also am an episcopal convert. It saddens me to see the utter collapse of faith in my former sect, but I am not surprised. Anglicanism/Episcopalianism was always about compromise with the world, so the course of events has been entirely natural. Having said that, the problems in my former home had nothing to do with my conversion. That was entirely due to the prayers of my wonderful wife. In turn, I have helped bring her around to more traditional, orthodox Catholicism. A great blessing indeed!

    As for this 'celebration,' it will once encapsulate what Vatican II has meant in practice - the triumph of appearance over reality, of muddled, worldly thinking over true faith, of "ecumenical" efforts that are doomed from the start, and have the sole effect of further watering down the Faith in their pathetic attempts to paint some picture of false "unity." That also saddens me, tremendously, but I don't think we will see any great change until not only the generation that made Vatican II, but also that which was so formed by its erroneous presuppositions (or the presuppositions of the 'Spirit') also pass from the scene. We have several decades to go yet, before things can really begin to turn around. But, we can never discount the beneficence of God - I could be very wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Outside of working together on pro life stuff, protestants for the most part still dislike the catholic religion and still think it's not true christianity due to their lack of understanding of scriptures, tradition and history.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Dr Taylor Marshall on The Orthodox: As an aside, I usually don't refer to the non-papal Easterns as "Orthodox" because they deny at least four Apostolic doctrines: original sin and concupiscence, the Immaculate Conception, universal papal jurisdiction, and papal infallibility. Some even make the silly claim that the Catholic Church is in heresy because we use the papal sanction Filioque in the Creed. It is not "orthodox" to say that the Popes have infallibly defined error. That, rather, is heterodox.

    I can't imagine two protestant ministers having gone to Rome to celebrate the 50 anniversary of the opening of the Council of Trent we are all friends now and the pesky lil' differences that separate us all must be papered over for the sake of, ah, ummmm, something; I guess

    ReplyDelete
  27. Francis8:29 PM

    As sickening as this is, this is only the preliminaries to the main event which will take place in five years. An event that will truly mark the "spirit" of Vatican II and its creators.... the Catholic hierarchy's celebration of the 500th anniversary of the protestant revolt with the protestant heretics. Martin Luther, the protestant revolt and Vatican II, all one and the same.

    ReplyDelete
  28. 1. The jury is not out on Vatican II, according to the Apostolic See.

    Pope Benedict XVI, as have his immediate predecessors, has insisted that Vatican II has been a great blessing for Holy Mother Church.

    2. It is unbelievable that Rome continues to offer, if you will, an important stage to laymen Rowan Williams who presides over a dead-in-the-water Protestant "community".

    Tom

    ReplyDelete
  29. Matthew Rose11:45 PM

    William,

    Maybe he will show up in his Pectoral Cross given him by John Paul II.

    ReplyDelete
  30. McCormack5:27 AM

    Tom, you say "Pope Benedict XVI, as have his immediate predecessors, has insisted that Vatican II has been a great blessing for Holy Mother Church."

    It's certainly politically unthinkable that a pope, at the very least, for the next century, should criticise the Council. It's still much too fresh in everyone's mind, those who influenced the Council and were directly influenced by it are still around. Not until this generation has passed, when future churchmen can look back on this historically and objectively, will there be any real examination and criticism.

    ReplyDelete
  31. GQ Rep10:34 AM

    Don't be surprised, and don't cry too much when all the Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains, Zoroastrians, Rastifarians, Animists, etc., etc. show up for the opening of this "Year of Faith", and participate in one or more celebrations during it.

    THat the noble Churches of the Orthodox tradition are coming is right and proper...but the "Archbishop" of Canturbury, Anglicans, and all the other Protestant groups than will be there is disturbing (to use polite language)

    ReplyDelete
  32. Wiseguy said...

    Jury is still out on Second Vatican? I don't think so; the jury came back for me a long time ago.


    Ironically, I have jury duty on October 11th.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Peter5:38 PM

    I don't understand what there is to celebrate. Yes, I know Vatican II opened fifty years ago. But what is fifty ? It's just a number.

    If something like this had happened in 1862, would they really be celebrating its 50th birthday in 1912 ? I don't think so.

    Come to think of it, did they have this sort of celebration for the fiftieth anniversary of Vatican I ? Or Trent ? I don't think so.

    Prof Basto is right. The best commemoration of Vatican II would be a damnatio memoriae.

    ReplyDelete
  34. I send my condolences having witnessed my childhood Roman catholic Church torn apart by post-conciliar excess of liberal modernism. Having been able to go to Holy Mass almost anywhere before 1969 my life since then has been made immensely complicated by liberal politics and the attempted destruction of The Holy Mass in Latin. Due to the itinerant nature of my work I sometimes have to miss Holy Mass altogether over periods of months.
    The Councils were totally unnecessary.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Following the 2010 survey of chief indicators for The Church and the inflated figures of church membership, what in truth is there to celebrate?

    ReplyDelete
  36. Peter9:27 PM

    LeonG said :

    Due to the itinerant nature of my work, I sometimes have to miss Holy Mass altogether . . .

    Well, you can't help it. I know it. More importantly, God knows it.

    All I can say is, I understand, and, and may God bless you, in these dark times, and always.

    Keep the faith !

    ReplyDelete
  37. Mr. Mulligan, as an attorney you must know how to get out of Jury Service: just say you can't "judge" others!

    ReplyDelete
  38. The Daleks6:42 PM

    Ecumenate! Ecumenate!

    ReplyDelete
  39. How weird would be if the "Archbishop" of Canterbury presented himself to receive communion and the holy father had to deny it.

    ReplyDelete

Comment boxes are debate forums for readers and contributors of RORATE CÆLI.

Please, DO NOT assume that RORATE CÆLI contributors or moderators necessarily agree with or otherwise endorse any particular comment just because they let it stand.

_______
NOTES

(1) This is our living room, in a deeply Catholic house, and you are our guest. Please, behave accordingly. Any comment may be blocked or deleted, at any time, whenever we perceive anything that is not up to our standards, not conducive to a healthy conversation or a healthy Catholic environment, or simply not to our liking.

(2) By clicking on the "publish your comment" button, please remain aware that you are choosing to make your comment public - that is, the comment box is not to be used for private and confidential correspondence with contributors and moderators.

(3) Any name/ pseudonym/ denomination may be freely used simply by choosing the third option, "Name/URL" (the URL box may be left empty), when posting your comment - therefore, there is no reason whatsoever to simply post as "Anonymous", making debate unnecessarily harder to follow. Any comment signed simply as "Anonymous" will be blocked.

Thank you!