Rorate Caeli

Will this show go on?

The closing Mass on March 20, 2011 of the LA Religious Education Congress for this year, with Archbishop Jose Gomez as main celebrant.

Will there be changes (for the better) next year?

(See also RC's post on last year's RE Congress closing liturgy.)


55 comments:

Anonymous said...

A man sat on the place of God

Anonymous said...

The dancing seems (to me) to be far more outlandish than last year's.

New Catholic said...

Well, they themselves do not call it a mass, but a "eucharistic liturgy". It is a liturgy of some sort, that much is undeniable - what is surprising is that any grown man would be part of something so ridiculous. Is this what UE wants us to confess and profess as "legitimate"?...

Right, right, it isn't illegal; but someone should be arrested for exposing so many people to so much nonsense.

Rick DeLano said...

Devastating. We had such high hopes.........

Young Canadian RC Male said...

6 teenage altar servers just lost their Catholic faith today, if they aren't already corrupted by now.

Anonymous said...

I can only imagine, and wish to leave it that way.

Anonymous said...

What is Archimandrite Nicholas doing there? He's abbot of what is supposed to be Greek Catholicism's most purely "Byzantine" monastery in North America!

Irenaeus of New York said...

I thought he would have improved things. Sigh... I guess not

Anonymous said...

"I can only imagine, and wish to leave it that way"

But you'll miss the entertainment! These people practiced so much to put on this song and dance extravaganza, surely you won't waste their efforts by not watching!

Anonymous said...

Sigh. Again the complete incomprehensible fact that this appears to be legitimate, but the fsspx is not. I think St Thomas Aquinas had a different idea of what is legit and what is not, but I am - alas - not very familiar with his thought there.

Lord, please have mercy!

Oh Heavenly Mother, please take care of you children and bring us the Victory of your Immaculate (and Sorrowful) Heart asap!

IM

Pascal said...

Before this conference, rumors reached me that liturgical dancing would be removed (especially last year's notorious dancing deacon) and the permanent deacons won't be allowed to process up to the altar with their wives.

Well, the dancing deacon's gone, but the permanent deacons still reverenced the altar with their waves (you can see them at 3:20), and the dancing is much more immodest than last year's.

New Catholic said...

Well, isn't that great?...

Father Ignotus said...

Irenaeus of New York:
Gómez succeeded Mahony on 3/1/11, and this Mass was celebrated on 3/20/11. In fairness, Gómez probably did not have much part in the planning of the event (since this was Mahony's pet) and he probably judged it imprudent to change everything at the last minute. Plus Mahony was there. Maybe we should wait to see if there is any improvement next time before criticizing Gómez on it?

Anonymous said...

This is ANOTHER RELIGION.

Mr. Ortiz said...

Well, it's a mess, and yes, any self-respecting man would be appalled to be there.

Gomez comes across as a man of genuine piety.

Let's pray for him.

Anonymous said...

Sad to say that I am not surprised. While Archbishop Gomez was here in San Antonio, he did nothing to end the 'mariachi' Masses at his Cathedral or throughout the city. He is by no means traditional. To the core, he is a neo-conservative.

While in San Antonio, Gomez's treatment of the Traditional Mass was lukewarm at best. In the pre-Summorum days he told one of the priests that offered the Traditional Mass that he was 'ruining his students' (he was a high school teacher) by teaching them the Old Mass. His treatment of priests who offered or wanted to offer the Traditional Mass was horrid: he wanted one to ask for permission EACH TIME he wanted to offer the Mass, when the Society of Jesus Christ the Priest wanted a parish he said he had none for them, and during his reign 4 priests who offered the Traditional Mass were persona non grata, and out of the Archdiocese within a couple of years of learning the Mass.

Is he a superior Ordinary to +Mahony or +Flores? Yes. However, this prelate is not the remedy to the liturgical or doctrinal crisis the Church is facing.

J. Luke

Blayne Riley said...

Look, as someone who has had His Grace as an Archbishop in my diocese, he needs to be cut some slack on this. He did more good for San Antonio in his short tenure than his predecessor did in his very long one. He cleaned up liturgical abuse, revitalized the seminary, and put things back on track fiscally. The fact that people are hooping and hawing about what he hasn't done in twenty days of power is ridiculous. He will do good things there, but he will be prudent and not start infuriating everyone right off the bat. A bit of charity, please.

Gratias said...

I hope Archbishop Gomez reads Rorate Caeli this time. The evil influence of Roger Cardinal Mahoney and Vatican Council II perdures. All the bishops in attendance were also soiled by this Protestant liturgy. To think I was hoping for a renaissance of the Traditional Latin Mass in Los Angeles, as legislated by Benedict XVI.

Anonymous said...

What can someone expect from OD and its proponents? This picture alone exemplifies its sickening hypocrisy: Striving for power inside the church by all available means.

sjgmore said...

What was it St. Augustine said? "In certain things, unity; in doubtful things, liberty; in all things, charity?"

We are certain this "liturgy" is an abomination; in that we are united. We are doubtful as to whether Gomez had much influence on the execution of this "liturgy"; in that we can take differing opinions about what it means for the Archbishop's future in LA.

But I think the charitable response is to trust that the Archbishop has hardly had time to simply wipe away the quarter century of filth Mahony has allowed to accumulate in his territory, and pray that Gomez will put things aright as quickly and surely as he can. I don't think we should conclude that Gomez is more of the same because of one mess that happened within the first few days of his actually taking the chair.

Anonymous said...

Look at 1:00:57

SAHD Dad / Dr. Mom said...

I think Father Ignotus makes a good point. Remember when B16 first became pope and he was wearing the same ugly vestments that JPII had used? Thankfully, those were soon changed. Hopefullly the new archbishop will do similar with this conference. Let us give him a little time before we judge.

DefensorFidei said...

"Maybe we should wait to see if there is any improvement next time before criticizing Gómez on it?"

To what extent can "prudence" ever be a reason for acting as chief celebrant in an abuse-filled and sacrilegious Mass? I can understand that sometimes a celebrant has no choice but to tolerate a given level of liturgical abuse. BUT THIS?

Perhaps Archbishop Gomez couldn't have stopped the liturgical dance -- actually he's the chief liturgist of his archdiocese, and so he could have stopped it had he really wanted to. But granting that there was no way that he could have stopped the dancing, did he really have to allow the wine that was to become the Blood of Christ to be placed in glass pitchers, and the bread that was to become His Body to be piled upon baskets? Did he have to lead the people in vigorous applause?

I can only imagine what the saints would have said.

Jordanes551 said...

What was it St. Augustine said? "In certain things, unity; in doubtful things, liberty; in all things, charity?"

Actually St. Augustine never said that. It first appears as an aphorism in the writings of the Lutheran irenicist Rupertus Meldenius (Peter Meiderlin). Anyway, in order for that aphorism to be of any practical use, one would have to know which things are certain (or "essential," as it more usually appears) and which things are doubtful. That begs the question of who is to say what is essential/certain and what is not. It's not the sort of thing St. Augustine would say, but it is something a Lutheran irenicist would.

Anonymous said...

@ Blayne Riley:
"He did more good for San Antonio in his short tenure than his predecessor did in his very long one. He cleaned up liturgical abuse, revitalized the seminary, and put things back on track fiscally."

While I agree with the above statement, I must must disagree with the easily placated tenor of your logic. The 25 years that +Flores was Ordinary in San Antonio was marred by quasi marxist thought throughout the seminary, massive closings of parochial schools, and a complete and total deterioration of the liturgy. The beautiful hispanic culture was used as an excuse to pervade and destroy the liturgy with vulgar music and dance that is more appropriate for a fiesta than a cathedral. Taking this into consideration I think it is obvious that a Catholic school boy who had at least remained awake during his religion class could have done "more good for San Antonio" than +Flores.

I find it absurd that we are asked to be patient with prelates who fiddle as our modern Rome burns. While it would be unreasonable to expect Traditional Masses left and right in LA so early in his reign, I think that an honest look at his record in San Antonio shows that this prelate is not the defender of Orthodoxy that so many people want him to be.

J. Luke

Anonymous said...

"The people of God gather around the table, the table of Word and of Eucharist."

Sacramentally and juridically, this is the Mass. Theologically, spiritually, and culturally, this is a completely different religion.

I agree with Father Ignatius though. This year's Congress was largely planned all through last year. Think of it as Mahony's last hurrah. Archbishop Gomez became the Ordinary in February and probably decided it wasn't prudent to change everything at the last minute. Next year's Congress will be his baby. That's when we'll get an idea of where he wants to take the Archdiocese. I don't have any great hope. I expect we'll see a few purely cosmetic changes but otherwise more of the same.

-KGB

Anonymous said...

Blayne, I'm not complaining about what he hasn't done, but what he has done, as this video shows: He's participated in, indeed presided over, a sacrilegious "Mass."

Anonymous said...

sigmore, Gomez could have chosen not to participate in this abomination. Instead, he chose to participate in it. What do you say to that? Was it charitable of him to propagate this scandal?

Anonymous said...

Jordanes:

"Actually St. Augustine never said that. It first appears as an aphorism in the writings of the Lutheran irenicist Rupertus Meldenius (Peter Meiderlin). Anyway, in order for that aphorism to be of any practical use, one would have to know which things are certain (or "essential," as it more usually appears) and which things are doubtful. That begs the question of who is to say what is essential/certain and what is not. It's not the sort of thing St. Augustine would say, but it is something a Lutheran irenicist would."

Is this true? If so, that explains a lot and why it is such a popular saying the past few decades. I never liked it anyway; left the door wide open to too much nonsense.

Delphina

Jordanes551 said...

About a century ago, the Lutheran historian Philip Schaff decided to track down that saying. His conclusion, which he discusses in his "Creeds of Christendom," is that it is nowhere to be found among the known or attributed writings of St. Augustine, but rather first appears in the writings of Rupertus Meldenius around 400 years ago, and Rupertus presumably is the guy who came up with it.

Justin said...

"Sacramentally and juridically, this is the Mass. Theologically, spiritually, and culturally, this is a completely different religion."

Whoever said this is spot on. I'm extremely close to becoming Orthodox and leaving the Roman Catholic Church. How long can this go on? It seems like Catholic traditionalism is a pipe dream. The Popes and bishops don't appear to either believe in traditional Catholicism anymore or do anything to stop stuff like what is in this video from happening. If the Pope really has the power to stop this stuff why doesn't he? Instead of praying in synagogues and mosques and bequeathing the papal tiara to the United Nations and dancing at rock Masses the Popes should be fixing the Church. They haven't, and I've had enough. Pray for me.

Timothy Mulligan said...

Justin, do not do what you are contemplating.

Pray to St. Athanasius for help and study his life. Recite the Athanasian Creed. As St. Athanasius said, it does not matter if they have our churches, because we have the faith. You will not achieve anything by destroying what you have left -- the faith. And destroy it you will if you deny Peter.

Criticize Peter. Remonstrate with him, even "to his face." Do not expect too much of him, and certainly not more than Our Lord promises. The Holy Ghost showed us Peter's foibles (even after Pentecost) for a reason. Stand with him, even when he disappoints us. Indeed, pray harder.

What you will find in Orthodoxy is arrogance toward the entire Latin tradition and internecine strife. Peter is not there. Neither is the Catholic faith, without which, St. Athanasius says, one cannot be saved.

David said...

Justin, please read this article by James Larson on the outrue nature of 'Orthodoxy'.

sjgmore said...

Well, it's good to know not to attribute that saying to Augustine any longer. However, I think frankly that my particular application of that saying holds true.

I do get sick of blog vigilantes who harp on and on about what such and such a person should do. It's extremely easy to say, "He should have not attended! He should have made people obey! He should have..." whatever.

But no one can deny that if Gomez had actually done any of those things, it would have had exactly the opposite effect of what it should. The people of his LA would have interpreted his actions as a big "F YOU" and few of the people who most need to learn a lesson about this situation would have bothered to look into his reasons or explanations as to why he would have acted that way.

If Gomez continues to fail to catechize his flock about reverence and tradition in the liturgy, and if he allows abuses like this to occur with regularity and with impunity, then I'll be the first to join the chorus of naysayers.

Until such time as it becomes clear that he refuses to make corrections, however, I think we have to understand that the Archbishop's dealing with this situation was charitable. Rather than making people feel stupid, or sacrilegious, or unimportant, he quietly allowed them to make mistakes that they only make because of the failed leadership of Mahony.

Christ himself didn't simply walk into hookers' and tax-collectors' homes and say, "You're all evil! Shape up!" He spent years ministering to them and teaching them and explaining. It takes time to change attitudes and educate people.

Long-Skirts said...

Timothy Mulligan said:

"The Holy Ghost showed us Peter's foibles (even after Pentecost) for a reason. Stand with him, even when he disappoints us. Indeed, pray harder."

Good advice but even better stand with the Blessed Mother and St. John at the foot of the Cross as they did! Though evil men within the Catholic Church are trying to take your inheritance away they can't. There are many Marines of the Priesthood who are preserving the Whole Faith...daily Masses, grade schools, high schools, convents, seminaries, monasteries, retreat houses...seek and you will find!
...and pray for the Pope!

RED

Vestments of red
Altar cloth too
Martyrs who bled
Did this for you.

Gold Tabernacles
Veiled in red’s hue
Martyrs in shackles
Hung for this view.

Red mums full bloomed
In water and brass
Martyrs consumed
Burned for this Mass.

Red rays of sun
Rose-streak the nave
Their suffering done –
Now red we must crave!

Anonymous said...

"We are certain this "liturgy" is an abomination; in that we are united. We are doubtful as to whether Gomez had much influence on the execution of this "liturgy"; in that we can take differing opinions about what it means for the Archbishop's future in LA."

For Pete's sake, when a layman see's such blasphemy he should turn around and walk out. Shepherds should lead the exodus not stand there like mute sheep because they are ultimately just politicians gauging their approval ratings. Enough is enough and the general standard of bishops these day is so pathetically low that looking at this crowd one really wonders what if any their faith is. It's not mine.

Gratias said...

Living in Los Angeles, the news from J. Luke of San Antonio are very sad: "during his reign 4 priests that offered the traditional mass were persona non grata, and out of the Archdiocese within a couple of years of learning the Mass.

Your Exellency Bishop Gomez: the situation for traditional Catholicism here in Los Angeles is desperate. With five million baptized Catholics your Archdiocese has only two every-Sunday diocesan indult masses, and none from FSSP or other traditional groups. These two masses are in Alhambra and San Buenaventura, at the Northeast and Northeast fringes of this enormous area. I am 75 miles away, yet live in an urban area. Please remember, Archbishop Gomez, that obedience to the Pope is required after SP and UE. Have mercy on your flock. We put up with 20+ years of Cardinal Mahoney and his always unfinished Vatican Council II, while abuse was rampant to the tune of 640 million Dollars in reparations.

One of our priests that learned TLM was demoted and ostracized to the outskirts by Cardinal Mahoney, and we could not survive this from his successor. Please remember your Opus Dei learning, Archbishop Gomez.

Anonymous said...

How can any "man" even attend this vile, nasty and pagan event? Give Gomez a chance he had it and failed!!

Anonymous said...

I've never been to a Protestant service. Do they do this liturgical crap too, or we're the only ones who have to suffer this?

Man entertaining and worshipping himself instead of God. The words of Mary Magdalene come to my mind: "They have taken away my Lord; and I know not where they have laid Him"

Paul M said...

It is a Mass alright- there's a consecration at 1hr 07min... using 'for all men'... I thought that was not allowed anymore.
I noticed that the baskets of hosts (yes baskets- how does one purify a basket?)were left covered during the consecration. I remember years ago as a boy serving Mass, the priest forgot to uncover the ciborium at the consecration. He did not consider the host in it were consecrated, and as there was no ciborium in the tabernacle, only a few could communicate as there was a limit to how many pieces he could break his host into. Very embarrasing for him. I wonder if anyone communicated at this Mass?

LeonG said...

They are only following the example for this liturgical type which is the western inculturated model that John Paul II (RIP) used on many occasions replete with dancing and even rock music at least once. This form has been beatified so who can argue with it?

Mr. Ortiz said...

I think we all know there is a difference between writing in a combox and running an archdiocese of five million souls.

We need to hold off on rash judgments (permanently, really!), and pray for Archbishop Gomez.

Anonymous said...

"I avoid saying this elsewhere, but I guess I can say this here, of all places: I have no respect whatsoever for a grown and relatively well-informed man (or woman) who leaves the Catholic Church for the 'Eastern Orthodox'. It is simply silly. And, on the eve of the great patronal feast of all Catholics, of those Martyrs who made Rome the 'servant of Truth', we should avoid even thinking, much less saying, something so dangerous to one's soul.

Go to Mass, find a serious confessor, and and pray, pray, pray: there's no crisis of faith big enough that the Most Holy Rosary and the prayers of the Divine Office cannot help us through."

Bravo, New Catholic! And here's an Ave for you for your inspiring words that are the Truth.

Delphina

Anonymous said...

sigmore's deeply perverse words:

"Rather than making people feel stupid, or sacrilegious, or unimportant, he quietly allowed them to make mistakes that they only make because of the failed leadership of Mahony.

"Christ himself didn't simply walk into hookers' and tax-collectors' homes and say, "You're all evil! Shape up!" He spent years ministering to them and teaching them and explaining. It takes time to change attitudes and educate people."

In other words, sigmore holds that it's better to preside over sacrilege than make people feel bad. This is truly pathetic Oprahism. Throw it off.

sigmore then goes on to analogize Gomez's leadership in sacrilege to the actions of Christ. This is truly perverse, indeed blasphemous - as if Christ ever participated in sacrilege.

Sadie Vacantist said...

In any event, LA will become part of Mexico within the next 50 years so perhaps it will return to the Catholic faith. Heck, with a bit of luck, "la Raza" might even pull down 'whitey's' Cathedral. Arriba, arriba!

LeonG said...

Notice the mandatory women hanging around the scene too.

Knight of Malta said...

Every man in attendance needs to have his man-card taken away pronto!

I almost threw-up my dinner watching just five minutes of that tinsel vaudeville show!

Knight of Malta said...

It has been Declared and Decided that every man in attendance has had his Official Man Card REVOKED!

Anonymous said...

Sadie Vacantist, it's way out of date to believe that most Mexicans are still Catholic.

Attende said...

Gomez was in an invidious position. Archbishop for only a few days and presiding over an event which had been made by Mahony the signature event of the archdiocesan year.
He had entered LA with every commentator, and many of them in the Church, suspicious of his association with Opus Dei and deeply suspicious of him.
Furthermore Mahony hasn't even moved out to make him space but is till living in the Cathedral house - Mahony has spent years on crafting his political connections and ensuring that his followers are in all the most important position.
The big picture is that on the macro scale Gomez has very little room in which to move but instead has, on the person to person micro scale been quietly visiting every parish in the diocese - anything that happens in LA will happen slowly by necessity and prudence -

Anonymous said...

The Homilies that Abp Gomez has given since he has been Archbishop of LA have been solid and orthodox. I agree with Fr Ignatos and Attende in their comments.

It would have been completely imprudent to change everything at the last min. We've seen our Holy Father do this in his pontificate, slowly changing things, as I imagine my new Bishop is going to do.

Next year I imagine, the Liturgical Dancing and the Pouring of the Precious Blood after the consecration will be gone.

Sadie Vacantist said...

anonymous 30 June, 2011 03:38

Fair enough but la raza still might pull down the "Taj"!

Trad Tom said...

A little off-topic, but just to show the difference: as a little kid (8, maybe?)in the mid-1950's, I attended a Eucharistic Congress Mass in a huge football stadium. It was packed, and it was silent --- except where there were supposed to be responses or songs. We knelt on the hard concrete steps when we were supposed to kneel, we stood, we sat, we PRAYED THE MASS !! And, yes, obviously it was the TLM, the only Mass that existed then. There was a procession, there was incense, there was Mass, there was Communion -- there was complete reverence and worship. We did not talk until we left the stadium, and then only to say how beautiful that Mass had been. How different from the nonsense in LA.

Anonymous said...

Laughing at the dancing and "censing" turned to horror as I watched the Archimandrite go towards the "altar" I kept repeating "Don't kiss it!" Imagine my disappointment. Did anyone report this to the Vatican yet?

Anonymous said...

Which religion was that?